Cambridge police officer James Crowley has got his back up and in the process is making Gatesgate much worse for the City of Cambridge and its Police Department. Globe:
Sergeant James Crowley, the Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. last week and touched off a firestorm of controversy, said today he would not agree to Gates’s demand for an apology.
Crowley arrested an innocent 58 year old man who walks with a cane in his own home for disorderly conduct based on words alone. The charge was so weak, it couldn’t even be brought to trial. Not impressive.
In the process, he made the City of Cambridge look bad and has given the Cambridge Police Department an unfair reputation as a gang of ego-crazed thugs who whip out the cuffs to make themselves look important, rather than to enforce the law. The least Crowley could do for his fellow officers and the Cambridge taxpayers who pay his salary is to take the high road and apologize for his failure of judgment.
Whatever one thinks of Professor Gates and his behavior, he certainly shouldn’t have been arrested in his own house after he showed his drivers license to prove he lived there, and considering he never offered any physical obstreperousness, according to the police report. Crowley should admit as much.
The chance for a hefty lawsuit against the City just got a lot better, I think.
nospinicus says
mcrd says
The cop rolls up to an alleged B&E call and from anecdotal reports, the residence has been B&E’d in the last six months. Sgt Crowley enters the residence and confronts gates. Gates gets snotty at some point or responds inappropriately and Crowley asks for ID. Gates refuses.
Now what would a reasonable and prudent person do next? Crowley may have told gates that unless he produced some ID ( confirming his legitimate reson for being in the residence) that he was going to lock him up—at which time, Gates begins his tirade. At some point in time, Crowley departs the residence, with gates either prceding him or following him, and Gates begins to cause a commotion on the porch causing on or more pedestrians to stop at which time, Crowley says the MAGIC WORDS.
Gates is a victim of his own stupidity and arrogance and it appears that Barack Obama has touched the same fly paper (for want of a far more apt analogy) And now Gates and Obama look like complete fools to everyone not only in Massachusetts, not the state or the country, but the entire world! I hope that Gates sues Cambridge, because he won’t get a dime and I hope Crowley sues the shit out of Gates and I’ll bet he walks away with a small fortune.
Sometimes it’s best to choose your battles and Gates really stepped in a pile of steaming excrement on this one.
He urinated down the wrong leg of the wrong cop at the wrong time, and he enlisted the support of Patrick and Obama and all three of them are going to be wearing this albatross for a loooooong time. Fools!
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p>Cops don’t get paid to put up with buttholes like this. You can say and think what you will, but cops get paid to
make tough decisions, lock up bad guys and a-holes and sometimes bleed and die. They do not get paid to put up with insufferable, unappreciative, arrogant, belligerent,
ignorant, hostile race baiters like Gates and his ilk.
That’s why God invented Disorderly Conduct. A PO cannot be disturbed, but one pedestrian on a sidewalk can and that is what makes it such a beautiful thing.
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p>Sgt Crowley de-escalated the problem very effectively—he locked his ass up!
ryepower12 says
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p>Really? Says who? And if they don’t, why the hell do we pay them so much?
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p>
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p>And turned it into a national circus. How, exactly, is that “de-escalat[ing] the problem?” Seems to me like it shot the problem with an incredibly potent form of steriods.
fairdeal says
. . really serve the greater good?
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p>first, please set aside any kneejerk impulses to Fight The Man. in this particular case, what does humiliating the cambridge police department (and by extension any law enforcement agency that employs white officers) serve?
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p>besides getting to air a lot of gauzy sentiments about fighting oppression and racism (which could very very possibly not even apply in mr. gates’ case), would getting a police officer (and by extension the law he is charged to enforce) to grovel before a cranky vindictive old man really be a pyrrhic victory?
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p>it’s common knowledge that the effectiveness of law enforcement is grounded in the respect that the public extends to that agency and their authority. now i know that this is anathema for everyone chomping at the bit to Fight The Man. but in places where the police really are nasty and corrupt (ie not cambridge, mass.) you see a breakdown of law and order because people have no respect for that authority. witnesses don’t cooperate, orders to cease unlawful activity are scoffed at, etc.
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p>so when mr. gates screams at a police officer, repeatedly calling him a racist in front of a crowd of people (by everyones admission, before his arrest and cuffing), what does this do to the (hold your jerking Fight The Man knee . .) to the authority of a law enforcement officer following up a legitimate call?
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p>okay, say that harvard professor skip gates basically spits on a police officer, refuses to identify himself, brands him a race hater, and ultimately gets to humiliate him further via a public apology, are we better off for that? i know that harvard professor skip gates will feel vindicated, but what have we lost in the process?
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p>should we feel that we’ve achieved something by humiliating and weakening the cambridge police department? and what happens the next time that an officer needs to question some unidentified punk kid lurking around the back door of some house on the other side of town? will he now think; hey, if that harvard prof can tell the cops to eat sh*t and still come out on top, why can’t i?
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p>is this our desired result? because that’s what it could be.
bob-neer says
The law was against this arrest: the city had to drop the case.
fairdeal says
began before his arrest.
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p>his basically telling the officer to eat sh*t began as soon as the law enforcement officer arrived to perform his basic duties of following up on a call. that’s pretty clear by all accounts.
kirth says
Since there’s no recording or transcript of what was actually said by anyone there, it doesn’t advance the discussion to paraphrase or invent dialog. Claiming that Gates was “basically telling the officer to eat sh*t” is not helping.
dweir says
The D.A. has discretion over what cases to prosecute. Not every case with merit moves forward. (Just wait until you get your socialized health insurance to see what rationing of public services looks like, or take a look at public schooling now.)
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p>A more likely explanation is that the D.A.’s office decided not to move forward on this case in an attempt to diffuse the situation.
mcrd says
Like dismissing or nul pros that pervert state senator from the north shore when the DA came out and said that the sexual assault on the campaign worker was he said—she said. Don’t give me ( or anyone else) that BS.
That disorderly charhe should have been prosecuted and if Gates wasn’t Gates, the defendant would have been found guilty by a reasonable person.
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johnmurphylaw says
And Gates blew it. As I said in a previous post, the bottom line is: You yell at a cop, call him racist in front of a crowd, refuse to calm down, you get arrested. It has to be that way. I want it to be that way. Otherwise, we’re all screwed.
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p>Gates may be frustrated and angry by the racist treatment he has experienced his entire life. Hell, he’d be crazy if he wasn’t pissed off. But the cop was DOING HIS JOB. He didn’t initiate the call. He didn’t target Gates. Even if the cop sneered and called him “boy”, Gates was stupid to sign up for “Arrest 101”. He would have served himself and the entire community better if he didn’t put on the show. Maybe go after the cop later. If he is a racist, he’s probably left a trail behind him.
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p>It is hard not to see the net effect of all of this as a negative. There are stereotypes being reinforced here that are all bad. And it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
dweir says
And I was astounded at the President’s shameful comment about the Cambridge police.
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p>This came just a few minutes after the POTUS likened doctors to unscrupulous car mechanics who give their patients unnecessary treatment in order to make more money. Maybe he was just in an insulting mood last night.
hgm-ma says
The state of unspoken segregation, where liberal yuppies talk the good talk but then oppose 40b in their back yard. Don’t think for a minute that a person of color won’t get as racially profiled as if he were walking in downtown Birmingham Alabama!
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p>And what he did say was that doctors can’t say no and they have no incentive to do so.
mcrd says
had a preschool for primarily Afro-American children on her street closed because they didn’t want”those people” in the neighborhood. The hypocrisy and racism of progressives is startling. As the Afro American businessman who fenced with Barbara Boxer ( the infamous California racist) the other day opined: If someone is wearing a sheet and carrying a cross, at least I know who to watch!
theopensociety says
When the officer did not do this, but instead escalated the situation, he was “not doing his job.” I want police officers who have better judgement or are better trained than this officer seems to be. Even if there is not the element of race thrown in, by not leaving the house after he was shown the id and by calling in even more police, the officer made this into a circus. The entire community is served by raising this issue because it could lead to better policing, and the sooner we deal with it the better.
dweir says
According to the police report the officer did leave after viewing the ID. Calling Harvard police after viewing a Harvard ID is appropriate action. You think not? Then you know little about the working relationship of community and campus police.
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p>But Gates’ rage continued even as the officer was leaving. Gates didn’t need any assistance to turn this into a circus. He was the clown in the center stage.
marc-davidson says
We do know that the police officer needlessly entered the house. This could have been resolved by a calm and friendly exchange of information at the door with a request for ID. From the start this was clearly not a case of breaking and entering. Criminals don’t come to the door to greet the police!
Moreover, there was no need to call the university police while the officer was in the house further escalating the non-incident — it was already obvious that this was a false alarm and it was rude of the officer to be on his radio while he should have been apologizing to Prof Gates while making his way post-haste to the front door.
As a white person, I can say that this is not my experience of police officers. This may or may not have had racial overtones, but, nonetheless, many police officers in our communities are far too prone to view African Americans and Latinos as potential criminals. This is the context in which Prof Gates viewed this incident, and it was incumbent on the officer to understand this history and to defuse the incident as soon as possible. By all accounts including his own he clearly failed to do this.
bostonbound says
mcrd says
It was a B&E call! Please educate me and the remainder of the readers as to exactly when Gates produced identification. It is reported that Crowley departed the residence and Gates followed. If the pinhead had remained in his home —he wouldn’t have been locked up. Once he departed the threshold of his domecile into the public arena—he became the property of the Cambridge Police Dept. Read the case law on disorderly person/Disturbing the Public Peace.
ryepower12 says
if someone isn’t arrested when they question whether a cop is racist — in this country that has a truly nefarious past when it comes to race, especially within police forces?
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p>Since when was Blue Mass Group a comedy blog?
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p>The cop ceased to be doing his job when Gates showed him his ID.
johnmurphylaw says
Gates was just “questioning” the cop about being a racist. What could be wrong with that? And he was only suggesting that the cop’s mama meet them on the porch. Quite neighborly! He probably thought the poor officer was hard of hearing, which is why he was shouting. And of course it’s bad manners to have a private conversation, which is no doubt why he tried to include the passersby in the discussion.
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p>By the way, the police officer did not “cease to be doing his job” after being shown an ID. He’s still a police officer, on duty. If you don’t think he is entitled to a modicum of respect, as an officer of the law, so be it. Do you actually think Gates screaming accusations at him (“racist cop”) in his front yard is appropriate behavior? Gates wasn’t calling for help. He wasn’t attempting to prevent the cop from taking any further action. I assume at this point the officer was through dealing with him. Most reports I have read say Gates was laying it on pretty good. You say that’s OK. Sad. Gates got a ride to the station. And we got a topic to chew over.
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p>The funny thing is, I’m not a big fan of cops. I am skeptical of some commonplace police “tactics”. I recognize many consider themselves above the law. I believe that, over time, many police officers develop a certain arrogance.
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p>But I’m more skeptical of people who don’t recognize the importance of maintaining a minimum of deference to the “peace keeper” in the moment. The cop was the man in charge, at the scene. He has to be. If some neighbor took offense at Gates’ tirade and attacked Gates, we would all be looking to the cop to protect the good professor and diffuse the situation. So no, he hadn’t yet ceased “doing his job.”
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p>I’m not saying Gates had to kiss the cop’s ass. I’m just saying that his inability to control his temper and curtail his obnoxious behavior had the natural and justifiable result of a free ride in the paddy wagon, and Gates should have known better. Instead, he could have reported the cop to his superiors. Write an op ed piece about him. Sue him for being rude, even. If we, as a society, think that it’s OK for people to scream racist epithets at police officers in public and refuse to calm down, and that there should be no negative consequences for this type of behavior, then we ARE screwed.
mcrd says
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p>Incorrect. Police don’t become arrogant, they get to dislike, despise, perhaps hate is too strong, the ocean of morons in which they are dumped. The Repeated domestic violence calls where they lock up the old man every Friday night for six months for beat’n on the old lady and one night the old lady shoots the cop in the back.
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p>The cop who knocks on Mrs Jones’s door to tell her that Johnie finally nailed a maple tree at 90 and now is part of his 82 Ford. Days later Mrs Jones is raling aginst the PD for not taking Johnies license two years ago. The same Mrs Jones who threatened to sue the cops for picking on her dirtbag kid for the past three years.
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p>Parents who complain that the cops are hard on the teens for locking them up for underage drinking, and then wail when a carload of kids marry a tree —-“how could this happen—-what have the police done to prevent this”
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p>Certain sections of Boston where the cops stopped and frisked the gang bangers and took their guns. WHOAAAAAAA
The cops are violating rights—how dare they, PROFILING!
And what do you hear when there are four murders a night?
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p>It’s REAL easy to be a cop and do NOTHING. I see nothing. I hear nothing. I know nothing. Answer your calls, take a report and do—-NOTHING. And guess what. You get paid for it. You get to take promotional exams and get paid even more to do NOTHING. You see—who needs the aggravation, the problems at home, the constant worry about civil suits, possibly being injured or facing public ridicule—it’s far easier and less wear and tear to do NOTHING.
A good aggressive cop is always in a jam. You wonder what goes through their minds. Do you really need to go to work and listen to grief from your wife, your Sgt, the Lt, the capt, the chief, the Comm, the Mayor, and the President of the United States—for doing your job, to protect someones home and property from vandalism and theft and then have that property owner urinate down your leg and then try to shove it up your ass. F*#K that. Go to work, drive around, drink coffee, read the paper, and shoot the breeze. Leave good aggressive police work to people who appreciate it—your fellow cops, friends, and family. The rest of the community can get what they richly deserve: NOTHING.
marc-davidson says
justice4all says
An epithet (from Greek epitheton, neut. of epithetos, “attributed, added”[1]) is a descriptive word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing, which has become a fixed formula. It has various shades of meaning when applied to seemingly real or fictitious people, divinities, objects, and biological nomenclature.
ryepower12 says
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p>
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p>So, you think we should kiss ass to police officers, and when they start to like it, get used to it and demand it, just take it?
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p>Cops should be trained to deal with situations where people they’re dealing with are angry without blowing a gasket and letting their emotions overcome them. Period. The police work for us. They should be giving us a modicum of respect, especially if they expect that respect to be returned. Most cops are, surely, fine… but we can’t allow this sort of authoritarianism creep in deeper.
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p>
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p>I’m glad to know you support the police abusing their power. Here I thought that only people who broke and entered should be thrown in jail for breaking and entering. I guess, getting thrown in jail for being angry that the cops would assume you did it is enough for some authoritarian-types.
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p>In other countries, when abuse happens, people riot – in the present, when it happens. In America, we watch, or side with the cops… because how dare someone disagree with a cop? How dare anyone challenge a cop’s authority to do whatever he or she pleases, regardless of the law. Who could possibly expect that those who are responsible to enforce the law shouldn’t abuse it?!
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p>This cultural difference between America and the rest of the west could help explain why authoritarianism has such a deep hold in this country and why Americans are so well trained to sit down and take it when “officials” fuck us over. One day we’ll wake up from this deep slumber and things will train — regular people will be given the respect and deference they deserve.
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p>Finally, a let’s look at these cultural differences caught on tape. In America, when abuse goes on, we watch it – or photograph it. Some assholes cheer it.
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p>Here’s what they do in other countries.
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p>Now, I think those fans went too far, but I don’t think abusive behavior by cops should at all be tolerated. In Crowley’s case, he should be fired — or at least suspended for a period without pay. Maybe, that way, next time when he questions someone for breaking and entering and finds they didn’t break and enter… and those people are a teensy bit mad about it… Crowley will decide to ignore them and move on, instead of taking things to the next level.
theopensociety says
who they serve, by the way. And engaging in hyperbole and untruths does not make your argument any stronger. there has been no “wanton disrespect for law enforcement.” As for whether we are better off if the police officer apologizes, the answer is yes because he should have left Prof. Gates’s house after he was given id showing that Prof Gates lived there. Instead, it became a circus. I expect more from our police, as should everyone. By the way, the fact that the officer has been so adament about not apologizing says volumes about his arrogance. At least Prof. Gates has admitted that he was angry.
striker57 says
Police Officers and any other public sector worker are not servents – they are employees. They provide a product and the public purchases that product. It’s wrong to abuse a store clerk, a mechanic at the garage and it’s wrong to abuse a police officer. They work for us, they don’t serve us.
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p>Gates has yet to apologize for any of his action including being angry enough to cause an incident. Saying I was tired and pissed is an excuse.
kirth says
As much as I think Gates probably handled the encounter badly, I can relate to his being tired and pissed. Flying from China to Boston will do that to you. If he flew coach, we too should excuse him.
mike-from-norwell says
he landed from China the previous day, spent the night in Newark, and then drove up on Thursday. “I’m tired” is a lame excuse for pulling “do you know who I am” card.
kirth says
China is 12 hours difference from here at this time of year. That’s as bad as it gets for jet lag. Apparently, he’d been there for a week, which is about what most people need to get their internal clocks reset. So at 12;45 pm in Cambridge, he felt like it was 1 am. I haven’t read that he spent the night in Newark, but as someone who’s done a week in Beijing at almost the same age as Gates, I can assure you that it screws you up for several days after you return. I am not saying that he gets a free pass, but I do give him some slack.
mcrd says
kirth says
11 hours before your comment. I was unable to find the story that says he stayed over in Newark, but one night’s “rest” has little impact on a 12-hour jet lag combined with an 18-to-27-hour flight. If you don’t believe me, try it – you’ll hate it.
mcrd says
But Gates spent the night in a hotel and had a driver pick him up. Gates is a whiney, spoiled, insufferable jerk!
And the icing on the cake is that Barack Obama is now up to his eyeballs in steaming excrement!
bostonbound says
johnmurphylaw says
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p>The officer stated, when asked, that he wouldn’t apologize. Well, I guess that might be “adamant”, but it also might be hyperbole on your part. I think continuing to loudly berate an officer for coming to your house to investigate someone else’s complaint about a break-in, at a house that had been broken into before, IS disrespect for law enforcement.
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p>Oh, that’s a real olive branch. How about admitting he lost his cool? How about using the opportunity to make this a teaching moment? How about modeling good behavior? Instead he fans the flames. He’s contemplating lawsuit.
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p>By the way, how is it that Prof. Gates so quickly reached the conclusion that the officer was a racist cop? Was it the language that he used? A look? Attitude? I haven’t heard that from Gates yet. Nope, I bet it was just because of the situation (asking for ID?). Pretty quick conclusion. Enough to unleash the tirade and the ugly accusations? And then not stop?
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p>Who was profiling here?
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p>ps: Debates make strange bedfellows. I pretty much disavow what JohnD says. We’ve debated race before, when I came down on the other side of the issue.
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hrs-kevin says
Do policeman regularly arrest every person who mouths off to them? No, they don’t.
johnd says
Especially if they are being uncooperative in a police investigation of a crime.
ryepower12 says
mcrd says
born-again-democrat says
What crime took place? A REPORT of a B&E does NOT constitute a crime. It only indicates that somebody thought that one was occurring, not that one was actually occurring.
mcrd says
Problem solved.
hrs-kevin says
That’s my point. The police most definitely do not arrest more than a fraction of the people who merely mouth off.
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p>Note that Gates was not charged with obstruction and since there was no reason for the officer to be there at the time of the arrest, in what way was Gates preventing the officer from investigating a crime?
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p>The speed with which the DA dropped this case tells you all you need to know about the legitimacy of the charges.
mcrd says
bostonbound says
You mean the crowd consisting of Crowley and Gates in Gates’ home?
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p>Or the crowd consisting of Crowley, other officers, and Gates on Gates’ porch the micro-second before they arrested him?
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p>There was no crowd. There was no disorderly conduct. Get it into your police-lovin’ brain!
ryepower12 says
cops start having respect for us, not just the other way around. After all, they are in our employ.
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p>What Crowley did was absolutely horrendous. Gates was right to be offended and, honestly, behaved quite rationally given the circumstances.
farnkoff says
The arrest? Showing up to respond to the call? Asking for i.d.?
I’d love to know what the black officer in the photo thought of Gates’ arrest.
I think the arrest was a mistake, but let me ask you this: is there ever a cause to arrest someone for disorderly conduct? If nor, then maybe that offense should just be eliminated from the law books. It always seemed like a vague, sort of B.S. charge to me.
However, isn’t verbally assaulting someone (swearing, threatening, “fighting words”, etc) sometimes illegal as well? I wasn’t there, so I don’t know what was said by either party, but I don’t think every variety of verbal venting is necessarily protected by the 1st Amendment.
bostonbound says
But political speech where one does not advocate the use of violence falls squarely within the First Amendment.
ryepower12 says
The fact that Crowley kept on keeping on after he was given the ID. The fact that he called the Harvard cops, and others, thus causing the scene. The fact that he didn’t just shut up, apologize for the confusion, and leave. Or, how ’bout this, the fact that he arrested Gates?
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p>Crowley is obviously a dickhead. We should stop making excuses for him, admit that there’s a huge problem with police and race in this country (HT on the link – Mr. Lynne), and stop making excuses. What Crowley did was wrong, would almost certainly not have happened if I was ‘breaking in’ to my own house and the cops came to see what was going on. Instead of rationalizing it to protect our delicate sensibilities – inserting our fingers into our ears and screaming la, la, la, la, we should actually do something about it and hopefully use this as a learning experience for Cambridge PD and police departments in general.
jconway says
Would a racist dickhead have a best friend who was black? Would a racist dickhead have him and his father vote for Obama? Would a racist dickhead teach a racial profiling class? Would a racist dickhead try to save Reggie Lewis from having a heart attack? I know the Crowleys, one of them was my scoutmaster. There a good solid family that never had any racial animosity or any animosity towards anyone, regularly campaigned for the democratic party, and regularly were involved in helping with their parish.
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p>I will be critical that the arrest was unwarranted and it was the officers responsibility not to lose his cool. In that sense Crowley, in my view he is wrong not to apologize. Frankly Professor Gates should apologize as well for also acting like a dickhead. But for people to demean him is incredibly arrogant and ignorant in my opinion.
hrs-kevin says
If all that had happened was that they disrespected each other, I would say that a mutual apology would be in order. But Crowley took Gates away in handcuffs, so I think the burden of the apology falls on him since Gates was harmed much more than Crowley.
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p>I don’t assume that this is a racial issue, but whatever his motivation, Crowley screwed up on this one.
striker57 says
I’d love to know what the black officer in the photo thought of Gates’ arrest.
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p>http://www.wbz.com/Obama-talks…
striker57 says
bostonbound says
It’s not an etiquette thing. It’s a job requirement.
jconway says
Name what amendment, what civil right that was broken?
bostonbound says
1st: arresting him based on political speech
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p>4th: entering the home and seizing him without a warrant
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p>5th: arresting him without reading him his Miranda rights
jconway says
1st amendment-Calling a cop a racist and insulting his mother is not political speech it is harassment. Had it been a white professor calling a black cop a n-word or simply a white prof calling a white cop an asshole, its all equally abrasive and harassing-not the way to co-operate with law enforcement who were simply making a call.
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p>4th amendment-he was on his porch screaming at the police in public, it was not his home they entered, you can also get a warrant post-facto if the cause was probable, one could argue that the a possible break in was probable cause especially if the ID Gates presented the officer with did not sufficiently prove he lived there (we still arent sure if it was only Harvard ID-which doesnt have address or harvard and MA id)
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p>5th amendment-where did you hear he wasn’t read his miranda rights? i have not heard any of that from any of the reports. He was told what his charge was and its standard police procedure top read the rights after that.
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bostonbound says
1st – “This is what happens to Black men in America.” If this isn’t political speech. I don’t know what is. As for calling the cop a racist pig or some iteration – this is vulgar, to be sure, but also protected. See, e.g., Lewis v. City of New Orleans, 415 U.S. 130 (1974).
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p>4th – the seizure began as a result of an unlawful entry, resulting in an illegal arrest of which no post-facto warrant can remedy. Moreover, probably cause as to what? He was not engaging in disorderly conduct. Moreover, the police report indicates Crowley suspected Gates was the resident. This belies any probable cause that he did not live there.
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p>5th – let me look up the source.
mcrd says
huh says
Easily the funniest post you’ve made in months.
tudor586 says
According to media reports, the only thing that Gates did to commit “disorderly conduct” was to verbally challenge the police. He was not physically capable of anything more robust. The US Supreme Court, in a case involving a gay activist who similarly gave the police a piece of his mind, declared a First Amendment right to verbally challenge and criticize police conduct. Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451 (1987). Moreover the statute invoked for the arrest, G.L. c. 272, s 53, which dates from the colonial era, has been narrowed to reach only publicly disruptive conduct. It does not apply to vociferous speech. Here the only “victims” of the alleged “public disorder” were police officers, not private citizens.
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p>While racial profiling has gotten the lion’s share of attention, the probable due process violation is equally alarming. It is a violation of due process to inflict punishment–the deprivation of liberty while Gates was detained–without a good faith basis for charging the elements of the crime.
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p>Police officers use “disorderly conduct” arrests to punish their on-the-spot critics with distressing regularity. I hope the scandal surrounding the Gates arrest exposes that abuse of process such that officers have more trouble getting away it.
johnd says
This country has always lived by the credo that you respect law officers. You may not like it and maybe you are part of the group of people who will eventually take this country down and remove us as the world leader we are. So many people here seem to alluding to a “sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt” model. Saying cops need to grow thicker skins… Doesn’t anyone see the irony of so many BMGers and the left being so angry for all these years EXACTLY for name calling of blacks, gays, disabled people and others. I’d probably get fired if I called a black person the N-word and a gay person another term. Name calling or “verbal assaults” to a police officer should be handled as it has ALWAYS been handled, no matter what color the person is.
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p>Aren’t we often reminded of the “Rules of the road” here.
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p>This whole thing sucks and would have been avoided if Gates has simply shut his mouth. I don’t want to live in a world where we can get pulled over for speeding and be able to tell the cop to go fuck himself.
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p>It would be nice if someone in authority like the Attorney General or the District Attorneys could lend some guidance as to what the law is on this (not Law students or Defense Attorneys). I’d like an answer from the top.
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p>PS Obama is an asshole for his comments on this.
bostonbound says
a man’s home is his castle. Now only one of these is reflected in the US and Massachusetts Constitutions.
johnd says
So in other words, the law is still the law in my castle.
bostonbound says
johnd says
Are you always this biased?
bostonbound says
johnd says
Try to be just a little unbiased here. The public, even here is “lefty” MA is siding with the cop. Gates acted like a A1 Asshole and deserved t be arrested properly for disorderly conduct. All of this would have been avoided if he didn’t launch his racially motivated rant. He could have shown his ID and explained wh he was breaking into his own house and the cop would have left without incident. Gates caused this problem on his own.
bostonbound says
He was not in violation of any laws. The arrest was bogus. This isn’t about bias, and it’s not about Gates or Crowley. It’s about basic liberties.
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p>All this talk about “should” and acting properly is besides the point. When push comes to shove, when words are exchanged and tempers run hot, what you have is one person getting his rights violated. He did not forfeit his rights regardless how much of an asshole you think he was. He did not “ask for it” and he is not to “blame” for getting arrested. Either you see this and cherish the right to be secure in your home, or you don’t.
lightiris says
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p>Wow. I may just have to use this comments on this thread the next time I teach 1984.
<
p>This is the United States, not some fascist dictatorship. Gates is under no legal or moral obligation to “shut his mouth” in the presence of improper police conduct.
johnd says
Do you teach your kids to think like this…
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p>”I don’t know all the facts… but the cops acted stupidly”
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p>Great logic! Imagine if we all led our lives like this. The first kid involved in a problem tells his parent or the teacher his side and the parent/teacher immidiatly sides with him. Wrong!! You find out the facts (I assume Obama has some aides) and THEN you make a statement. Moron! Isn’t he a lawyer? Don’t thay teach that in Law School?
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p>Then this lovely spin…
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p>
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p>Funny how he convienently goes from Gates showed his ID and then was arrested! He just failed to mention the yelling, screaming, insulting, following the cop out the door to scream more, failure to cooperate, failure to yield when ordered to…
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p>Let me see you conduct a class with students being able to act this way.
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p> “Would you two students please stop talking”
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p>”Fuck you, you racist pig”
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p>”What’s your name?”
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p>”Kiss my ass”
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p>”Step outside so I can speak to you”
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p>”speak to my mama…”
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p>”Go to the principle’s office”
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p>”You’re a racist. You’re overreacting…
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p>This cop did the right thing. He’s not a hero but he followed the rules. You won’t see ANY disciplinary actions against him since he was doing his job.
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p>Gates is a moron!!!
bostonbound says
Which explains so much.
johnd says
As shown by the fact that people like me are till paying the bill for so many out there. And it’s only getting worse.
mr-lynne says
… they want their rhetoric back.
mcrd says
The cop defuzed the problem by arresting the person.
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p>A police officer has the right and OBLIGATION to arrest a person when: The police officer believes that a crime has been committed or ABOUT to te committed and the arrested person committed it.
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p>Some of the specious arguements here: What crime was committed. If someone is about to take your head off with or without a weapon, would you like the cop standing nearby to intervene or wait until a crime has been committed. The inane arguements of some of the people here are beyond belief.
pablophil says
Are you having this imaginary discussion with the kid in the kid’s living room or in a classroom?
Wow…are the cop defenders this irrational?
ryepower12 says
but as public servants, cops have a much higher standard applied to them. If someone criticizes them on the spot, or calls them names, yada, yada, yada, they should suck it up and move on. They should not allow themselves to get emotionally carried over and take actions that they’ll later regret.
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p>And, I’m sorry, but this “credo” we were taught as kids, I think, is actually rather damaging. I think it feeds into the ego of cops. They work for us, not the other way around. They should be there for peace and relative order, not to be authoritarian assholes.
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p>
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p>Gates was a private citizen who is entitled to free speech, including the right to criticize (vociferously) police officers. Crowley is a public servant, paid for by this government — us — and serves purely at the pleasure of citizens. He does not have the right to arrest people because they disagree with him, or because they hurt his delicate sensibilities, or challenged his abusive use of authority. The whole thing would have truly been avoided if Crowley left after Gates showed his ID, apologizing for the inconvenience.
johnd says
Nobody has answered my question but you bring it up here.
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p>Black state cop pulls me over and asks for my license/registration.
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p>The racial slurs begin to pour out of my mouth calling him names even RObert Byrd wouldn’t use when he was a member of the KKK. Are you saying that black cop should ignore the remarks about his mother and daughters and just process my ticket?
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p>I’d like a person in authority (Attorney General) to make a statement on what people can say to police officers before any law has been broken. If she agrees with you and others on this site, then she can clearly announce to the public that all of us can mock, insult, demean and hurl racial, ethnic and sexual persuasion remarks at cops with no risk of breaking a law. I would hate to be a black cop if this were to be true.
bostonbound says
<
p>
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p>http://www.freedomforum.org/pa…
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p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F…
johnd says
for hurling racial slurs at the Governor, even after repeated warnings for me to not use that language… or calling a black state cop every black slur… or for so many other unacceptable verbiage to a police officer, you would stand up and defend my rights of free speech? Really, even in the absence of this Gates issue. That seems funny since we have been living in a PC world for these last few years where “some speech” has been deemed as hurtful, damaging and politically incorrect.
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p>PS Citing cases like this means nothing to me since another lawyer would find another case where the opposite outcome occurred. We need to hear from the AG or the Governor and they better be careful or they completely undermine the law and order our society has and NEEDS!!
bostonbound says
That’s what a belief in the First Amendment entails. It’s not about you or Gates. It’s about your right to free speech. Why is this so difficult to understand?
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p>And why do you need an advisory opinion from the AG? Supreme Court cases are public info.
marc-davidson says
there’s no law that prohibits someone from getting angry at a cop. Police officers are trained to be thick skinned or at least they should be.
petr says
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p>I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe that this is first cop in the entire world to ever have been faced with a belligerent citizen… In fact, I would think that verbal abuse of a cop is so extremely common it’s part of their training. If it isn’t, it ought to be…
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p>
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p>I was always taught, and teach my kids, that the police are there to help you and that they have an extraordinarily tough job so you need to help them. I’ve also taught them that cops are humans and can make mistakes. I think that’s a sane view.
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p>Frankly, when this story first broke, I expected an apology for the cop pretty quickly. I’ve only started following it all the closely now that the moral standoff has begun. I thought, immediately, that the cop made a mistake. Now, the most infuriating part of it is the refusal to acknowledge that mistake.
ryepower12 says
<
p>The most frustrating thing about it is, from the quote I read on the NECN coverage of this last night, it seemed like all Gates wanted was a public apology from Crowley. Time may be running out on that. Now, this bizarre stubbornness will probably not only cost Crowley his job (easily justifiable by this point), but Cambridge could very well be sued. And, you know what, if Crowley can’t get over himself and make that apology, then I couldn’t even disagree with Gates seeking that route. It’ll just be sad for it to come to that, especially in these tough-budget times.
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p>—
<
p>I also wanted to comment briefly on your point about cops.
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p>
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p>I think that’s the naive/pearly view. It ignores the historical (and even recent) problems — and if we ignore the problems, we can’t fix them. Personally, should I ever have any, I’ll be teaching my kids that cops, like anyone else, can be good and can be bad, but the worst have the tendency to let their “authority” get to their heads… with sometimes dangerous consequences.
petr says
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p>I’ll be the last one to defend naivete, but will admit to giving my kids the simplified (pearly?) view of things as a starting point. We’ve had discussions since then that expand on this view and encompass some of the dastardly deeds perpetrated by cops. We had a good long discussion just yesterday on the issue of Gates and the CPD. I’m careful, however, to steer away from the suggestions of cops as, de facto, authoritarian thugs. I think the vast majority of all law enforcement officers are upstanding people, so there isn’t an inherent, or integral, bully-boy aspect to being a cop.
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p>And, Lord knows, my boyz see enough of the anti-authoritarian views on some of the crap cartoons they’re given to watch these days: each one with a young or teen protaganist surrounded by feckless adults and one or two older villains, often in a uniform of sorts. So it’s not like I’m feeding them a steady diet of only Horatio Hornblower and Dudley Doright.
bob-neer says
I refer you to: “The Hand of Destiny”, in Collier’s, November 1940 (Lieutenant Hornblower negotiates a mutiny).
<
p>;-)
jconway says
What if a white harvard professor called a black officer the n-word in a similar situation? I don’t think anyone would question the arrest. Similarly had a white professor, trying to break into his house, been stopped by the police and then proceeded to verbally berate them, a) he would have been arrested and b) nobody, especially the President, would have cared.
marc-davidson says
calling someone by a racial epithet is hardly comparable to calling someone a racist.
I don’t think you have any evidence for what you say here.
johnmurphylaw says
How about screaming?
mcrd says
I don’t want to be driving or walking down Gates’s and have some crazed madman on his porch screwming like a howling banshee and distracting my safe operation of my motor vehicle or ruining my pleasant day. I want the cops to lock the idiot up and find out what his problem is. That is what the nanny state is all about. Protecting me from YOU!
mr-lynne says
Amazingly funny
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p>and sad.
born-again-democrat says
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p>This country was BORN out of rebellion AGAINST law officers.
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p>”All men having power ought to be mistrusted.” –James Madison
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p>Had this country “always lived by the credo that you respect law officers,” we’d still be a British Colony.
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p>Not to say that we should openly lash out against ALL of them, of course. But to suggest that we should ignore this BLATANT disregard for the law simply because the guy is a police officer, and to then suggest that to do so is in line with our nation’s history, is, I think, grossly mistaken.
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p>Once the ID was shown, proving that no crime was being committed, that officer had NO RIGHT to be in Professor Gates’ home, much less arrest him for responding as he did to what, at that point, amounted to the invasion of his home.
dweir says
But the USSC case you cited was about a municipal law that specifically outlawed speech that interfered with police work.
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p>You don’t need to be engaging in behavior directed at police in order to be charged with disorderly conduct. If Gates had been directing his ire to his neighbor, let’s say, would a policeman witnessing the altercation have arrested him on disorderly conduct? Probably not initially, but after being warned by the officer if the person didn’t calm down, yes I can see that being a legitimate disorderly behavior charge.
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p>What do you think?
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p>For guidance on what constitutes disorderly conduct, I’m referring to the following summary, and it seems from the report that following the officer outside and continuing to yell was Gates’ mistake.
<
p>
Source: http://www.masscriminaldefense…
tudor586 says
Your point about Houston v. Hill raises a distinction without a difference. What is important is that citizens have a constitutional right to verbally challenge and criticize police officers in the conduct of their duties. As far as I can see, all Prof. Gates is accused of is yelling at the police, which is pure expression. There is no law against being a loudmouth, even on the public sidewalks. “Disorderly conduct” is a crime meant to protect the general public, not the delicate sensibilities of self-important police officers.
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p>You accurately describe the elements of the crime, although it should be added that the statute as interpreted carves out speech in view of the First Amendment interests at stake. I don’t see a good faith basis in fact to meet the elements of the crime charged. If there were a public disruption, you’d expect members of the public to have observed and complained about the “disorderly conduct.” The fact that only the police were offended by Prof. Gates’ words is telling.
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p>John D–I’m sure the Iranian security services would appreciate your view that citizens have a duty to “shut their mouths” when confronted by authorities. You are not describing the United States of America but a police state.
johnd says
Don’t you think there is a huge gap between order and the Iranian Police clamping down. I don’t want cops to be “all powerful” creatures but I think when a cop shows up at a car accident or breaks up a fight… then that cop should have authority. And if one of the combatants or one of the people in the car crash is yelling and screaming then the cop should tell them to stop. If they continue then he should warn them to stop or they will be arrested. If they still continue then they should be arrested. Obama and others are portraying this as the police officer arresting Gates without provocation and without issuing a warning. Wrong.
bostonbound says
The officer’s authority to tell Gates what to do in his own home vanished when he realized Gates was in his own home. And I’m not even talking about Gates’ right to free speech (which is a separate grounds for invalidating the arrest).
johnd says
If Gates hadn’t followed him out the door then this is a non-story. Please understand (and explain to Obama) that Gates was NOT arrested for not identifying himself or for being in his own house or for burglery. He was arrested for continuing to be disorderly after repeated warnings.
bostonbound says
Even in his own porch.
ryepower12 says
Because Gates was yelling and screaming… he should be arrested?
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p>He was in his own goddamn house!!
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p>You know, if he was in the middle of a highway, blocking traffic, I think you’d have a point. But I can yell and scream in my house if I’d like. I can even do it on my own porch.
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p>Evangelizing Big Brother may seem like a good time to you, but I find it about as worthwhile as when the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses come knocking on my door. I try to be polite as possible, but I do inform them I don’t want their literature. JohnD, we don’t want your literature…
gary says
Don’t yell and scream in a Starbucks:
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p>
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p>Why do Cambridge police hate backs and women?
ryepower12 says
It’s certainly hilarious — hardest I’ve laughed all day — but it doesn’t take away from the key points about Gatesgate. Consider:
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p>1) Satirical Woman was in a public setting, not in her own, private home.
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p>2) Even more importantly, Satirical Woman went far beyond Gates — to the point that she was clearly threatening. Throwing foam (or anything) at someone (assault?) and hopping over the counter (trespassing?) is certainly threatening behavior – and potentially worse. Gates did not do those sorts of things.
fairdeal says
sure, it’s mostly in my right to publicly insult a law enforcement officer. that would be the legalistic position.
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p>but what greater good is served by demeaning the authority of a police officer in uniform for asking somebody to routinely identify themselves?
did the officer ‘get taught a lesson’? (besides skip gates telling him that he didn’t “who he was messing with”) or does it send out a signal that our law enforcement officers, and by extension our laws, can be openly and publicly defied whenever we are in a bad mood or have a chip on our shoulder about something else?
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p>late one night in cambridge, i was in the back seat of a car on mass ave. that banged a hard u-turn right in front of a no u-turn sign. a police officer happened to be parked right there, and with lights flashing, pulled us over. the driver, rather than pulling a Fight The Man pose, immediately deferred to the officer doing his job and told him that we were just in a hurry to get our dates home.
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p>the cambridge police officer told him that the real reason that he pulled us over wasn’t the traffic violation (the streets were empty), it was that we did it right under his nose. and he said that if anyone saw us so flagrantly disrespect the law right in front of a police officer, and get away with it, it would make the police “look like fools”.
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p>and he was right. we agreed, apologized, explained that there was no disrespect towards the officer or the force intended, and that we were just hurrying back to allston. the officer kinda smiled, told us to be careful, and off we went, and he went back to whatever he was doing. situation over.
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p>
bostonbound says
…then it’s a losing argument. One side has a monopoly on violence and the ability to constrain liberty. The other sides has only words. I’m not willing to sacrifice my or your rights to preserve “etiquette” and the delicate sensibilities of a police officer and a society that condones this type of abuse of power.
fairdeal says
we should spit on our police officers, and then turn around expect them to protect and serve our interests?
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p>would you consider international diplomacy just so much frilly etiquette? or pragmatic relationship building? don’t we get the partner that we help create?
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p>(on a side note: if you were a professional burglar, wouldn’t this be the perfect time to break into skip gates’ house?)
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p>
bostonbound says
and it has been this way since 1787.
ryepower12 says
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p>On the rare occasion someone talks poorly toward a cop, absolutely. Now, if they actually spit on them, in the literal sense, that’s probably an arrestable offense.
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p>Now, why should we expect cops to treat those who aren’t very respectful with turn-the-other-cheek decency? Because they get paid a great deal to put up with it. We expect this sort of behavior from employees dealing with costumers in every setting and sector, why shouldn’t we cops? It’s doubly so given the immense power we imbue cops with.
davemb says
If you commit a blatant traffic violation right in front of a cop, it means that you aren’t paying attention, and it’s a legitimate worry that you might not be paying attention to other stuff. I would want that cop to stop you and determine whether you were drunk or otherwise confused before you continued on the road.
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p>(I was stopped for running a red light in front of a cop a couple of months ago, and though I would have preferred a warning I have no beef with the $100 ticket.)
born-again-democrat says
that in this case, there was actually a violation of the law. What law did Professor Gates break by trying to get into his own home?
mcrd says
When you cause a public disturbance—you are disorderly and you are going to jail.
ryepower12 says
is the fact that Gates seemed to imply, from what I heard on the news last night, was that all he wanted was an apology… ie a public apology could probably avoid an ugly and expensive (for Cambridge) lawsuit. Now, because of this outrageous refusal to apologize, there probably will be a lawsuit. It will cost Gates nothing; Harvard Law’s got his back, as they should. Cambridge, on the other hand, will pay a terrible price. Since the cop doesn’t want to apologize, Cambridge should immediately sever ties with him and apologize for its role in having ever hired the quack. Maybe that’ll be enough for Gates at this point?
joets says
Let’s really make this ugly.
bostonbound says
It’s funny what he would have to resort to without being able to use a gun or badge.
joets says
and don’t trust anyone over 35!
hrs-kevin says
His chances of winning a defamation lawsuit are practically zero.
farnkoff says
that Crowley was just following his training. Perhaps the commish is lying to cover his subordinate.
If Crowley’s not in fact a racist, however, then publicly calling him one, or demanding a personal apology (presumably, an apology for being racist?) would seem to be defamatory.
marc-davidson says
mcrd says
kemo says
They shoulda tasered the grumpy old limpin’ bastard… At least then he would have something to be upset about and have a somewhat credible lawsuit.
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p>If a lawsuit comes I hope the city of Cambridge fights it and doesn’t cave to avoid the publicity.
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p>If these cops are racist…the word has lost it meaning.
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p>My home alarm accidently went off and I didn’t reach my home phone fast enough. The police showed up about 10 minutes later. I answered the door, they came in, asked me my name and to look at a photo ID to prove that I was the resident. I thanked them for responding to the alarm, answered there questions and cooperated. Guess what? No one got arrested. Hmmm… that was easy.
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p>Maybe when this angry old man’s house gets broke into for real Cambridge’s finest should take there sweet time!
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p>SHAMEFUL.
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p>
ryepower12 says
After all, who doesn’t enjoy a good tasering? It’s almost as good as a good old-fashioned public execution. Making jokes about causing cruel and potentially deadly pain to people is a great past-time. Glad you decided to partake.
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p>Gates was in his own private home. He had a right to be angry. The cop was, I think, justified to get the ID. He could have left at that point, but chose not to. Instead, he decided to bring reinforcements. Hence, quack.
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p>I seriously hope Cambridge doesn’t take your advice. It will cost Gates (and Harvard Law) almost nothing to try a case like that. It’d be a relished, learning experience for law students. On the other hand, the expenses for Cambridge would be enormous. I’d rather the tens or hundreds of thousands they spend on legal fees in a case like that be spent on their schools, wouldn’t you? Or would you still rather just joke about it? Maybe they could lay off a few Cambridge Cops to pay for that potential lawsuit, since they don’t seem all that pressed into demanding Crowley apologize (or else) quite yet.
kemo says
Now your going to choose to be sensitive and object to my joke about tasering?
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p>OK… I’ll say it… I’m so very sorry for my being so insensitive. My joke and sarcasm fell flat… Unless swinging his cane at the cop or physically going after the cop I would never condone the use of a taser.
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p>Perhaps calling for backup served as a witness to protect both the officer and the prof’s version of the story? It is not that uncommon, overboard or “quacky” for law enforcement.
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p>Keep defending the old man and challenge the cops… especially when you weren’t there. Talk to a cop (if you have any friends in law enforcement…maybe you don’t) and get his/her take on these reports. If it is more credible in your mind ask a minority cop the same questions.
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p>Charges have been dropped by the way.
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p>If Cambridge doesn’t stand up to a frivilous lawsuit… every grumpy old bastard with a chip on his shoulder is going to find any excuse to sue the city. $$$ We all pay… unless of course the City of Cambridge has one of those magic trees like the ones in DC that grow money.
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p>Anyway, it’s a bunch of crap… Can’t wait to hear what Al Sharpton has to say!
liveandletlive says
Cops treat white people this way too.
bostonbound says
… is “disappointed” that Obama has waded into “what should be a local issue.”
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p>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32…
bostonbound says
He goes on Dennis & Callahan, that bastion of reasoned debate, and plays the part of the dutiful and earnest officer.
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p>This thing is gonna get bigger. It’s being orchestrated and exploited for a culture war.
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p>http://www.boston.com/news/loc…
mcrd says
kirth says
lawyers, ‘news’ outlets, loudmouths.
dkennedy says
I’ve seen Gates described as “elderly,” too. He’s 58, for cryin’ out loud. As a 53-year-old, I object!
gary says
Object to AARP.
bob-neer says
I direct your attention to the final line:
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p>
<
p>But I agree “58 year old” is more accurate and stand corrected.
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p>As to you, Dan, the important point is not what the calendar says, but how old you feel. 😉
bob-neer says
bob-neer says
christopher says
Let’s just stipulate the both sides got a little hot under the collar and go on with our lives. Charges were dropped – next case!
ryepower12 says
/snark off
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p>This is not something that should be ‘compromised’ and ‘moved on’ without resolution. For starters, Crowley has still not apologized. Gates deserves at least that.
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p>Secondly, it’s one thing for a private citizen to become “a little hot under the collar,” it’s completely different when a cop gets “a little hot under the collar” and arrests you. In one case you have a private citizen getting angry, though abusing no special powers or laws; in the other you have a public servant abusing the powers we give them. Society doesn’t appropriately function under the latter scenario — that’s when things like people being arrested for no real reason happens…
joets says
and Crowley can apologize for arresting Gates and then Gates can apologize for calling Crowley a racist. Then they can shake hands and hopefully never see each other again. Done.
fairdeal says
“the only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about” -wilde
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p>skip gates is scoring the kind of publicity that people can only dream about. the united states of america is having it’s most substantive debate on health care in it’s history, and the takeaway moment from the presidents address to the nation is . . . . skip gates.
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p>if you were skip gates, would you want this to be done?
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p>the officer, yes. he just has to return to his beat.
but you think that gates is hating his new fame, and wish it never happened?
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p>
petr says
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p>The problem with your view of Skip Gates as publicity whore is that Skip Gates has Oprah Winfreys’ personal cell phone number and can get on her show any time he wants.
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p>He’s got his own show on PBS and could, if he so desires, get a ‘Dr Phil’ style spin-off from Oprahs conglomerate just by asking.
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p>And during none of this does he have to spend anytime in jail…
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p>Skip Gates in not a publicity whore.
johnmurphylaw says
Just because the elderly professor is famous doesn’t mean he abhors more fame. On the contrary.
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p>Most rich people I know want more money, even though they don’t need it. That’s usually how they got there.
marc-davidson says
is that one is an officer of the law and the other a regular citizen. The officer abused the authority entrusted to him by the government. As citizens we are invested in this man’s service to his community. His apology is an admission to us all that his performance was below that which is expected. Whether or not Gates apologizes for things he might have said is entirely personal.
pbrane says
Gates is a professor at what is arguably the most prestigious school in the world and and has the full political and financial backing of that institution behind him in a spat located in Harvard’s back yard, literally. Did he not play the “do you know who I am” card in the midst of the incident?
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p>I’m pretty sure the officer and his union do not agree that authority was abused.
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p>Personally I think Gates seems he’s a real jerk and certainly acted like one, but I think the officer over-reacted and should have walked away. I think they should both apologize and end their 2nd grade staring contest.
petr says
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p>Most people, when they ask the quesion, “do you know who I am?”, are really asking “do you know who I think I am?” I’m not certain that applies to this instance and not for the reasons you’d first arrive at.
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p>Gates isn’t just ‘a professor’, he is the preeminent scholar on race, race relations, African-American and African history and African-American literature in the country. He’s the academic version of Tom Brady.
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p>With that as context imagine if you will the situation where a cop enters his house, unbidden. (Gates’ also has stated he felt in danger from the officer… ) He’d be like, ‘uh… are you trying to profile me? Do you know who I am?’ It’s kinda like if you met a tall guy and challenged him to a one on one basketball match… he’d be like, ‘uh, you know I’m Kevin Garnett, right?’
pbrane says
… the image that this was you or me being harassed by a bully cop. I’m pretty sure if I had been arrested the charges would still be pending, I would be spending my own money to defend myself, the presidents of Harvard and the United States of America would not have spoken up on my behalf, so on and so forth.
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p>I’m not sure how relevant it is that Gates felt threatened. I think there is something threatening about interactions with the police whenever the terms are uncertain and I’m not sure it shouldn’t be that way. I’m sure cops feel threatened every time they step through a unfamiliar doorway or shine a flashlight into a car stopped along the road. Maybe the cop should have read the situation differently when Gates went inside to get his ID. Maybe his instincts told him this wasn’t a threatening situation, but perhaps his training was not to trust his ability to read someone he’d known for 30 seconds that was clearly pretty agitated.
jconway says
Ive been saying this the entire time, they were both childish and wrong. I’ve met Professor Gates, I know the Crowleys, they are better people than this and should just move past this.
christopher says
If it is the official policy of the CPD (which I doubt and certainly hope not) to get overly harsh, not accept an ID, etc., then that is the problem. To me it was two individuals, one of whom happens to have a badge and the other of whom happens to have a doctorate (both of which in my mind invite higher expectations of behavior) who were rude to each other and both used their respective leverage (Do-you-know-who-I-am vs. authority to arrest). The cop’s behavior isn’t necessarily any more reflective of police than Gates’ behavior is of Harvard faculty, though it might be warranted to see if CPD is in the habit of reacting the way they did.
bostonbound says
Except that in this case one of the humans has a gun and the ability to restrain the other human’s freedom. One is clothed with the power of the state and the other is not.
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p>This isn’t a one-off event. Why is this catching the nation’s attention? Because, among other reasons, it tests competing notions of the role of the police in our society and how much deference they merit.
christopher says
I must admit I’m a little disturbed by the fight-the-power attitude demonstrated by some, especially Ryan, who seems to think it’s entirely Crowley’s culpability and Gates is a saint. I actually had a run-in with a US Park Police officer a few weeks ago because he didn’t think I looked before turning with my car and he thought I cut him too close. He stopped me and asked, “Why didn’t you look?” Apparently saying, “Sorry officer, I thought I did,” was the wrong thing to say because he yelled, “That’s a $150 fine since you won’t even take responsiblity!” He started lecturing me about how he had family and what if I had hurt or killed him. I was a nervous wreck, and yes, he was being a bully, but I felt the best thing I could do was just let him vent. I tried again to defend myself and finally asked, “What would you like me to say?” He said say, “I’m sorry and it won’t happen again.” I repeated his words verbatim not being entirely certain how they differed from what I had already said. The whole encounter left me in a foul mood, but ultimately my remaining outwardly calm got me out of that $150 ticket. I seriously considered formally complaining, but never got around to it. If it happens again though, I almost certainly will. My advice is defend yourself through the justice system rather than go off on the officer on the spot.
bostonbound says
And Gates def. did not. But what gets lost in the debate, either through lack of knowledge or because of an excessively deferential – even reverent – view of law enforcement, are a couple of things: (1) this took place in Gates’ home, and that changes everything; and (2) Gates was engaged in pure political speech. Add to that Gates’ apparent, subjective belief that his dignity was assaulted, and Crowley’s belief that his supreme authority was being challenged, and, well…
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p>I can’t stress the home angle enough. Crowley went in there to investigate a break-and-enter. How in the world does he emerge from that with an arrest for a disorderly conduct? Where is the respect for Gates’ 4th amendment rights? 1st amendment rights? This was simply v. bad policing, by any measure.
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p>What I think we’ll see in the next few days is reports about Crowley. What kind of person he is, what his role at the CPD is, how he came to respond to this call. So far, from his own interviews, he comes across as arrogant and authoritative, one who does not take lightly to being challenged. I’m not so sure I want somebody like that comprising the arm of the state.
ryepower12 says
You got into a situation with a cop and got off. Gates got into a situation with a cop… and doesn’t, even after he proved he was in the right and lived in his own home. I wonder if there’s a long-standing, historical reason that could explain this discrepancy?
christopher says
(and feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding) the arrest came AFTER Gates started giving attitude and the same fate might have befallen me if I had chosen the same path. Of course, now we’re arguing hypotheticals, but based on your link it sounds like your quicker to blame this on race than I am. Just to clarify, what race is Crowley? I thought a previous post/comment suggested he was black too.
ryepower12 says
be able to arrest someone for “giving attitude” — especially in that person’s house, so long as they’re not threatening someone? You can’t even say he was ‘disturbing the peace’ given that he was in his own damn home.
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p>Arresting someone after they proved their innocence is an abuse of office. The cop clearly was pissed and decided to abuse his authority.
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p>People have a right to criticize. They have a right to be angry. Gates wasn’t threatening. He was in his own home. The cop should have left after seeing Gates’ ID. In fact, Crowley should have apologized for the confusion. Suggesting anything else is just making up lame excuses. It’s also ignoring the fact that cops work for us, not the other way around.
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p>And you’re being naive if you don’t think that race is a major issue that comes into play (and, yes, Crowley was white). The history is just too deep in America. Even if Crowley himself did not intend to treat Gates differently, it’s his job and responsibility to be aware of the history of abuse and historical racism of cops against the African American community. Given that Crowley actually ‘trained’ other cops on such matters, from what I heard on msnbc tonight, I think it’s time for him to take a few, new lessons.
christopher says
I’m just pointing out that in my situation I made the conscious decision not to give attitude (despite my internal thoughts – darn good thing the cop couldn’t read my mind at that moment) so as to not escalate the situation. I’m not saying don’t criticize, just that there’s blame to go around here, but I agree ideally the show of ID should have ended it (although it sounded like some, maybe not you, were taking umbridge to the request for ID. As for race, I think a commenter gave the only truly honest answer very early on when he said we don’t know. Every situation is different and I would want to know more about Crowley’s overall record dealing with minorities before calling him a racist. Let’s stick with rude, abrasive, heavy-handed, etc. unless/until there’s actual evidence of a race-based motive. Frankly, history says nothing about this incident unless we’re specifically refering to Crowley’s history. The only other thing I will say is since he has taught about racial profiling maybe he of all people should have known to be extra-sensitive, but that by itself does not make him racist.
ryepower12 says
However, they can’t let their emotions get to them to the extent that they’re arresting people purely because of their anger — and not on the merits. I’m not saying either party was perfect, but clearly a police officer needs to learn how to deal with frustrations without escalating situations. If they can’t do that, they shouldn’t be police officers. When someone is armed and given the authority to strip someone’s freedom from them, we’re giving them a lot of power in society. Abusing that power cannot be tolerated.
sue-kennedy says
a bit earlier. He stated that Gates gave him only his Harvard ID which did not have his address. This appears to match the police report although Gates reports also tendering his driver’s license.
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p>Gates was also on TV last night, saying suggesting the reason for his arrest was that the officer did not like a black man, who knew his rights, getting in his face. His own description of being in the officers face does appear to be the cause of the arrest.
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p>Gates could easily have said. “Good afternoon officer. Thank you for checking on me, I appreciate your concern. Here is my drivers license. Thank you for your vigilance.”
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p>The short comings of the police officers actions have already been noted.
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p>These are 2 guys in a pissing contest, both abusing their power to prove they’re the alpha male. Neither has a right to be very proud of their actions.
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p>I am most concerned over the actions of the police officer. Most people know that they are likely to be arrested or worse if they piss off a cop. Being obnoxious is not a crime, and I am tired of seeing innocent people and non violent offenses being beaten, tased or arrested… those incidents where the level of response is not justified by the situation but by the level of frustration of the police officer.
mcrd says
You can kiss my something—something—something ass. I wouldn’t give Gates the right time of day nor apologize, at this point, for the despicable display of contempt he displays toward those who keep us safe. And the fact that he ran to Patrick and Obama for assistance to bury this uppity “white trash” civil servant. Ya —right. If I were Crowley– I’d make sure that paybacks were in order and a priority. Two can play the same game.
bostonbound says
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p>http://www.abcnews.go.com/Poli…
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p>Grateful, eh?
fairdeal says
“grateful”
bostonbound says
bob-neer says
President Obama, in my interpretation, said as much. “So far, so good,” after the officer responded to the call.
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p>I would have been grateful, for example, up until the point where he refused to believe that I was in my own house even after he had my drivers license.
bostonbound says
I doubt Crowley was looking for a simple thanks. He was expecting obsequiousness and deference by virtue of his authority. And that I cannot support.
mcrd says
They didn’t even take a report. It took me two days ans mutiple phone calls to other police departments and I got my wifes jewelry back.
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p>So ya—I’d been apprecaitive and greatful. Cops don’t get paid enough for the crap they have to put up with from the public, their superior officers, fellow cops, political hacks,the morons on the bench and sneaky, lieing DA’s.
jconway says
We have to know the facts of the case. Had Prof. Gates presented his drivers license with his address on the card then the subsequent arrest is really unwarranted. Had he presented ONLY his Harvard ID it does not prove anything-someone could still be a burglar even if they are a Harvard professor-so they cop had to take the precaution of calling the Harvard Police to make sure they knew who it was and if he lived there. Gates is also renting, its technically a Harvard property that he doesn’t own, so calling the Harvard police also made sense from that perspective.
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p>So it really comes down to a question of whether Gates gave proof he lived there or not. The police report says he didn’t he said he did. Sadly since neither person in the case is mature enough to simply apologize and move on it seems the courts just have to settle this matter.
bostonbound says
the police report says Crowley believed Gates was the resident but had to make sure. And renters have as many constitutional rights as homeowners.
bob-neer says
The Harvard police were there. The driver was there. The suitcases were there. Even if Gates didn’t give him his driver’s license — although I see no good reason to imagine he would invent that detail — any reasonable person could be sure this wasn’t a burglary in progress, and that the man with a cane wasn’t a burglar.
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p>In fact, the officer didn’t arrest him for burglary, but for disorderly conduct.
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p>So the claim he wasn’t aware Gates was legitimately there, if that is what anyone wants to propose, seems very hard to sustain.
yellow-dog says
Crowley’s invitation for Gates to step outside was an invitation to an arrest. Disorderly conduct is, if I’m not mistaken, a crime against the public and generally takes place in public. Gates may have been disturbing the peace, though I doubt it, but as someone else said, he wasn’t guilty of disorderly conduct.
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p>When high school kids have parties, cops can’t enter the residence unless they see a crime, naturally the kids hide their drinking. Police often ask the kids to step outside. This is a law enforcement trick to arrest them for public intoxication/disorderly conduct.
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p>As far as Gates goes, I think he was what one of our (ir)regulars called our President. (Will the editors start deleting some of JohnD’s diatribes and stupidity, please?)
Crowly was wrong, but it seems like Gates over-reacted. As has been said before, it’s not against the law to be an a-hole.
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p>It is ironic that he asserted his minority status while ignoring the fact that he was exerting the power and influence of his higher class status. It was a clash of multiple identities: black and white; upper class and middle/working class.
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p>At this point, I wouldn’t apologize to Gates if I were Crowley. I also wouldn’t hug him or join him in Kumbaya. Gates said he’d accept an apology if he could also educate the policeman on racial history and sensitivity. Despite the professor’s presumption, I’m not sure Crowley was a racist cop, just a pissed off cop abusing his power. He doesn’t know what was going through Crowley’s head. If Gates is really interested in an apology, he should start by realizing that he himself behaved badly and that he doesn’t know what Crowley was thinking. In short, he should get to know the man and appreciate what was going through his head. Only when Gates respects Crowley’s humanity is reconciliation possible.
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p>
marc-davidson says
that Crowley is paid to keep law and order. Crowley is accountable to the public for his actions. Gates is not. This time Crowley failed at his job. Maybe it’s not an apology that’s needed but a public admission that he messed up.
yellow-dog says
is warranted right now. Maybe after tempers cool. Crowley could potentially get in trouble for a bogus arrest.
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p>I agree that Crowley did a bad job that day.
liveandletlive says
and hung up the phone. (It was accidental, 911 was on speed dial). Two police officers arrived, knocked on the door, declared they just received a 911 call from this residence and asked to come in. I told them it must have been an accident because there was no emergency at our house. My stating this was not sufficient for them. They wanted to know who was in the house, and they wanted to speak to every person in the house, to hear from them that everything was OK. My daughter was in her room. She had to come downstairs, present herself to the police and declare that she was fine.
I could have said “get the hell out of here” you jerks, you aren’t seeing anyone. Instead our family complied with their request and were “grateful” to know that should anyone call 911 from our house in a volatile situation, the police were not leaving until they were sure everyone was OK.
I’m not giving a pass to police officers. Some are abusive and should not even be in law enforcement. I don’t believe Mr. Gates should have been arrested. But I do believe he should be mature enough to have just complied with the requests for identification and leave it at that.
marc-davidson says
in your case there is reasonable doubt in the police officers’ minds that everything was ok — possibly a domestic altercation etc. Here it was a reported case of breaking and entering. For the reasons cited several times already, it should have been apparent very quickly to the officer that there had been no crime committed. Once he realized this he should have left as quickly as possible pausing only to apologize for the inconvenience.
Does anyone here actually believe that the officer did everything in his power to defuse this situation? That’s part of his job.
mcrd says
liveandletlive says
These officers were coming into my house whether I welcomed them in or not. Had I not answered the door, they would have busted in. Perhaps a huge invasion of privacy in light of the fact there was no emergency, but had there been one, I don’t see how the behavior by the police could have been tempered and still have them be able to stop a crime in process.
howland-lew-natick says
I’m no one to give support to police, but Mr Gates abuse rants make me laugh. If he was treated the way he says he was treated, I think he got the “upper-middle-class-white-man” treatment from the officer. If he got the “black-man-treatment”, he would be beaten, tazered to unconciousness, then, upon awakening, shot 99 times — and 100 cops swearing to the necessity.
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p>What a circus!
raftery says
As a Cambridge resident i can tell you that if you dis a cop he will arrest you. Most have a god complex and gates freaked out. The Boston globe had a quote “I’m outraged …this is really about justice for the least amongst us” Thats hilarious. He is far from “the least amongst us” being a tenured professor at Harvard and probably having an income of 100K ++. He certainly looks smug in the head shot photo in this story. I can understand his anger because blacks do get hassled by cops but if I insulted a cops mother and was arrested there is not way in hell the charges would be dropped. Being a Harvard professor has its privileges.
johnd says
That was a great first step. Gates should be the one on his knees apologizing for acting like such a moron. What a great role model. Good luck to the teachers in inner city public schools since the conduct of many of your students will go even further down.
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p>And yesterday, another move in the right direction came when the CPD administration came out and soundly defended Crowley.
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p>
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p>Today will feature a big press conference for the law enforcement community (both black and white) to support Sgt Crowley and his perfectly legal actons against Gates the Racist!
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p>Next on the agenda… look for Obama to try to take back some his “stupidity” comment which was a sign of Obama’s stupidity and BIAS. Obama just lost support from Law Enforcement officers from around the country not to mention the polls showing overwhelming support for Crowley. This may be a bigger loss for Obama than his staggering loss of the socialized Healthcare cramdown. Next time the president want to make a comment, he should remember his answer when asked why it took so long for him to comment on famous the AIG bonuses…
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p>
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p>Think before you speak next time too… idiot.
striker57 says
If Gates decides to sue, the public will be hearing the 911 call, and the recordings of all radio activity around the incident.
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p>To date the Cambridge Police have not made those public buy they will be public as part of a court case.
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p>Guessing Gates position suffers if the tapes go public.
petr says
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p>I don’t know about that… Crowleys’ report is… interesting… reading. Lots of unanswered questions. big potential for questions and conflicts.
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p>On the other hand, it’s only going to take 2, maybe 3, Cambridge citizens to come forward saying that either Crowley or another member of the CPD arrested them for “disturbance of the peace.” Once some intrepid reporter gets a hold of Crowleys’ records on past arrests, and we see how many ‘disturbing the peace’ busts he’s got… hold on to your hats.
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p>
ryepower12 says
and also utterly meaningless