Comment of the day

I've always thought it's better, (6.00 / 2)

whether in government, nonprofits, or even the private sector, to slash the salaries of the highest paid people before you lay off the folks making $25 or $30 K. The essential question for me is, "Is anybody really so talented that they're worth three or four other workers?" I tend to doubt it. And state troopers should probably max out at around $100,000- a more-than-comfortable middle class salary when one includes medical benefits, pensions and the like.

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by: Farnkoff @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:11:08 AM CDT

SCANDAL! (6.00 / 2)

$240,809.52
$240,493.24
$231,624.46
$224,008.81
$217,161.73
$211,966.65
$211,142.09
$208,314.26
$202,906.74
$197,119.23
$196,367.11
$196,112.60
$195,797.97
$193,004.88
$192,972.01
$192,800.00
$192,478.03
$192,272.21
$191,735.67
$191,104.23

Thank you JohnD.  

www.bit.ly/7Wousr - "Must include a public option"
www.bit.ly/7yaoMv - Coakley shifts, backs abortion curb
www.bit.ly/5f8CVb - John Kerry reporting for duty!
www.bit.ly/6rJnZU - Questions for Martha Coakley on Civil Rights  

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by: NeilSagan @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:28:01 AM CDT

Some spending is getting cut drastically (6.00 / 1)

The state budget for Early Intervention (special services to children birth to 3 years-old who are developmentally disabled or at risk) is getting cut in half (from $50M to about $25M).

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by: Steve Stein @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:39:54 AM CDT

Um... (6.00 / 2)

I went to the 'source' listed and couldn't find information on state police salaries.  All 'mass turnpike data' is blank, presumably because of the reform package...  

I'm not sure, absent further detailed information, why this is supposed to be shocking...? It's entirely unclear to whom these salaries are directed.  The State Police does have helicopter pilots, which might push the curve up a little. It's also not clear whether the earnings are above the rate (meaning overtime, and/or other income...) or if this represents prevailing wage averages for security and/or aviation jobs in the economy as a whole... I'm sure we could pay them less, but, question is, do we want to?


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"Providing health care to the uninsured is a job killer, while not providing health care is merely a people killer....   Bonus: Job Openings!!"

--Stephen Colbert

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by: petr @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:41:24 AM CDT

I'm also not sure that their salary is 100% from taxes (6.00 / 2)

when a local detail is needed for utility work or private construction work, they get paid by the town, but the utility or developer has to pay the town for that salary, overhead, etc.

So the officer's salary gets a bump, but that bump isn't coming from taxpayer coffers.  Is that the same with staties?

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by: stomv @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:42:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Stomv - but what about Chapter 90? (0.00 / 0)

The developer then passes that bill back to the town as a fully reimburseable expense, and the town gets reimbursed by Ch. 90 (on approved projects, must be accepted road, etc.).

While the immediate reimbursement comes out of bond funds, the taxpayers are paying back the bonds - plus interest.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:49:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Depends (0.00 / 0)

I'm not just talking about work on roads.  I'm talking about working on a building near the public way (an issue for urban areas, not suburban or rural) and I'm talking about utilities.

Not all details are for public projects.  My understanding is that the private projects that still require details have a money flow that goes: developer/utility --> city/town --> officer, which I suspect would show up on JohnD's data sheet, despite the money not coming from taxpayers.

For public projects, the taxpayers are most certainly footing that bill (indirectly), complete with loads of cross subsidies and accounting craft.

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by: stomv @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 12:18:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

a chance for direct input (0.00 / 0)

Ms. Porcupine, as a state employee and someone who's been singled out by Howie Carr, do you agree with JohnD's premise?

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by: huh @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 13:36:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We pay it all stomv (5.00 / 1)

Where do the utilities get the money to pay the state police to look into the hole?  They get it from the rate payers and pay it to the state.  The money is not created out of thin air.  It is not a direct cost to the state but it is a direct cost to the rate payers.

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by: RegularJoe @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 15:11:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nonsense (0.00 / 0)

I don't have cable TV.  When any of the cable companies dig up my roads to do cable work, I sure as heck aren't funding their detail cops.  Same is true for natural gas work w.r.t. oil furnaced homes, and telephone work for people who don't have a home phone, and for cell phone work for people who only have a home phone.

When a developer needs a police detail because his work is too close to the road or he's got too many/large vehicles in and out of the job site, I don't pay for that either.

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by: stomv @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:03:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

More context, please (0.00 / 0)

I'd like to see this data in the context of total state expenditures. I wonder how hard it is to get the source data into a spreadsheet where we can do some distributions on it (on a personal note, I would love to find a way to be compensated for doing something like this. I'm self-employed, and literally can't afford the time it takes to do this).

I've wasted too many hours in too many town meetings arguing at great length about the "outrageous" line item for the streetlight budget while ignoring other items that are a hundred times larger (literally -- folks arguing about a $30K expenditure in a budget with line items well in excess of $3M).

"If the Republicans will stop lying about the Democrats, the Democrats will stop telling the truth about the Republicans" -- Adlai Stevenson

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by: BrooklineTom @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:44:45 AM CDT

JohnD has done this before ... (6.00 / 3)

Instead of throwing salaries out there, a little bit more information might be helpful.  I'm not saying that salaries are appropriate or excessive.  I'm just saying JohnD needs to provide more.

Listening to Charlie Baker talk about fiscal responsibility is like getting lectured on abstinence from Paris Hilton - Tim Murray

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by: johnk @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:48:21 AM CDT

Sure, I'll take a leave of absence from my job and go hire a crew from Channel 5... (0.00 / 0)

and go chase down the Bristol Community College Interpreter and ask why she makes $93K for working 30 hours. Maybe she speaks a language that only she is able to interpret. But then, if she is the only one then who would she interpret for?

Please JohnK... I didn't start this diary, I simply replied to a comment about the state being able to cut more before we start raising taxes. And don't worry, if you post a comment about Haliburton I won't ask for you to travel to Iraq to provide more details!

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:10:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks John (6.00 / 1)

Yes, I know you didn't start the diary.  But it has been a topic you have brought up before.  You brought up pensions on a comment, yes, great topic.  Boston has some "perks" that not included for state employees.  Yes, Boston should addressed.  I could be wrong but I think Flaherty had brought that up as an issue.

Listening to Charlie Baker talk about fiscal responsibility is like getting lectured on abstinence from Paris Hilton - Tim Murray

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by: johnk @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:20:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

In addition, (0.00 / 0)

Is there waste or excessive benefits that can be addressed as a means of saving money?  Yes.  What does that do for us now?  The larger point here is that this does not address our need now.  We need to take action today.

You are using long term changes as an example of something we can do to fix a short term situation.

Patrick has started the process with some of the reforms passed.  With an agreement that there is more to do.  But do you have the expectation that this can be addressed in a few weeks or do you think it's a longer process.

That is my problem with that argument, it's one thing if we are not making progress.  It's another when you have an administration that has made the situation better from what it was handed.

Listening to Charlie Baker talk about fiscal responsibility is like getting lectured on abstinence from Paris Hilton - Tim Murray

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by: johnk @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:44:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The excuse of the present os to blame the past. (0.00 / 0)

Bush is gone... Weld/Cellucci/Swift/Romney... are gone. Let's stop with the "handed" stuff. And besides, Deval has been Gov for 3 years and he can no longer blame previous administrations for anything. He's had three years to clean up waste and out of control spending but instead ha hired lots of people and immediately rein Romney's stated cuts (that he was handed)!

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 16:42:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So by comparison ... (6.00 / 3)

Patrick has reformed pension, he has worked to pass transportation reform.  How does that stack up to the efforts of Weld/Cellucci/Swift/Romney?

Favorably?  How can you argue against.

Listening to Charlie Baker talk about fiscal responsibility is like getting lectured on abstinence from Paris Hilton - Tim Murray

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by: johnk @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 20:55:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

johnk you're getting slightly off track. (0.00 / 0)

I will give Deval some credit for making some pension reforms. I gave him credit when he actually did it and I'll repeat it here. I'll also say the reforms were on a "token" level, but it was a start. B-

My comments so far on this thread have been about existing state workers (of all flavors). In this regard Deval has sucked and has in fact added to the problem by hiring more people, has not taken advantage of enough Stimulus money by not being prepared like other states and pandered to the unions. F

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:58:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm left wondering (6.00 / 1)

What exactly Mitt Romney did.  

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:12:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

MA Universal healthcare but that's not the subject of this thread (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:08:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Um, no (6.00 / 2)

Remember when he was going to cut government waste?

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:18:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

How about this? BTW... are we talking again? (0.00 / 0)

Governor-elect Deval Patrick announced today that he will reverse the remaining $383 million in mid-year spending cuts imposed by Gov. Mitt Romney in November after the governor vetoed legislative attempts to balance fiscal 2007 spending using the state's stabilization fund.

The November cuts, totaling $425 million, were made using the Governor's "9C" authority to unilaterally reduce spending when he determines that revenues will fall short of approved spending. Romney restored $41 million in spending on Dec. 1 when tax collections exceeded expectations.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 13:45:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wha...? (0.00 / 0)

Maybe she speaks a language that only she is able to interpret. But then, if she is the only one then who would she interpret for?

If the person this hypothetical interpreter could also interpret, then that person wouldn't need an interpreter in the first place, right?  

Let me get this straight: Democrats protest war, Republicans protest health care?

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by: tblade @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 17:25:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

maybe he's projecting? (3.00 / 1)

Most of his posts involve some sort of secret wingnut code, apparently known only to him.

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by: huh @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 19:10:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Klaatu barada nikto" (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:04:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fictional $93K interperter (6.00 / 4)

No Bristol Community College interpreter earned $93,000 last year. Take a second look.

There is one column labeled ANNUAL RATE and another column labeled 2008 EARNINGS.  Now, the alleged $93k interpreter has a listed annual rate of $93,600.00, but has a listed 2008 earnings of $0.00.

JohnD Fail.

As far as I can tell, the highest paid BCC interpreter made about $56,000.

RIF: Reading is fundamental.

   

Let me get this straight: Democrats protest war, Republicans protest health care?

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by: tblade @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 17:42:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great job tblade, you got me. (0.00 / 0)

Skip my whole premise. Please allow all these fat cats to make everything they are currently making and let's cut the living shit out of DMR, Child services and every other unprotected group. All youth programs should not be cut but actually eliminated. Also, let's increase tuition rates for kids in this state to pay for all those administration workers Thanks for showing me the errors of my way and more importantly showing who you all care about... state workers.

Here are some more people at Bridgewater State College "just getting by"

President	$217797.84
Provost/VP Academic Affairs	$143473.71
Acting Vice President	$128679.38
Vice President	$147650.00
Acting Assoc Vice President	$135580.29
Vice President	$140855.23
Vice President	$141514.89
Chief Information Officer	$119822.58
Dean	$139737.58
Dean	$127137.37
Associate Vice President	$113858.97
Acting Assistant VP	$92608.36
Dean	$106240.63
Asst to the President	$109753.49
Assistant Vice President	$109041.44
Associate Vice President	$108542.67
Associate Vice President	$107898.96
Director	$106538.64
Associate Vice President	$103896.78
Director	$100226.36

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:05:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

how do these salaries and positions compare to other state's colleges? (6.00 / 3)

Or other colleges in this state for that matter?

From your postings, I'd guess that education is not something you value. It still strikes me as odd that state college salaries are your fallback for cutting government waste.

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:13:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Exactly. (6.00 / 2)

What should these people be making?

There are people in the state college and university system that I think earn obscene salaries for the value they add to Massachusetts Higher Ed (Michael F. Collins), but showing that a Provost earns $143,000 is not evidence that that person is overpaid. Unless shown otherwise, why should I not assume that these salaries are perfectly reasonable for these jobs and for people with such credentials.  

Let me get this straight: Democrats protest war, Republicans protest health care?

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by: tblade @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:17:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

as noted below, the CIO position is far below scale (0.00 / 0)

120k instead of the 200k he or she would make in the private sector

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:22:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

p.s. attacking tblade doesn't really help make your point (6.00 / 3)

Just because he caught you in a liefactual error, doesn't mean all he cares about is state workers.  It just means that, once again, you've substituted hyperbole for facts.

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:16:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

$120,000 (6.00 / 2)

for a highly qualified CIO is about right.  

www.bit.ly/7Wousr - "Must include a public option"
www.bit.ly/7yaoMv - Coakley shifts, backs abortion curb
www.bit.ly/5f8CVb - John Kerry reporting for duty!
www.bit.ly/6rJnZU - Questions for Martha Coakley on Civil Rights  

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by: NeilSagan @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:08:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd say it's actually quite low (5.50 / 2)

Salary.com puts the median for a CIO around $200k.

An IT manager in this area makes around $120k...

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:20:03 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Like I said to tblade... (0.00 / 0)

If you people are ok with these salaries (how ever excessive I think they are) including their pensions then this debate can end. Although I might add a truer comparison might be to other state's college personal and not private. I have read people on this site advocate that no executive should make more than 4x (or about) the lowest workers salary. So can they defend Mass Port's Dennis Treece who was Director Of Corporate Security getting $238,673. He retired from the Army in 2000 and started with Massport in 2002. Not bad.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 14:14:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the sins of the Swift administration? (0.00 / 0)

I'm shocked the Romney administration didn't push him out the door.

But again, no one in this argument is complaining about CEO salaries, just you.

Your argument would be far more interesting if you actually did the homework you suggest.

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 16:35:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

in this area (0.00 / 0)

comp in public education is substantially different than comp in for profit just as comp in fortune 500 for-profit is substantially different than comp in a for-profit enterprise with 800 computer users.  

the source you cite makes no distinction.  I assume it is talking about midsized for-profit, not a public college campus it CIO.

www.bit.ly/7Wousr - "Must include a public option"
www.bit.ly/7yaoMv - Coakley shifts, backs abortion curb
www.bit.ly/5f8CVb - John Kerry reporting for duty!
www.bit.ly/6rJnZU - Questions for Martha Coakley on Civil Rights  

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by: NeilSagan @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 14:44:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yes, clearly they're talking private sector (6.00 / 2)

But that's the point I made earlier.  What expectations are we putting on government employees? Should their compensation (including benefits) be competitive?  If not, should we be surprised by corruption?

That said, clearly there's an argument to made for cuts.  JohnD just isn't making it.

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 15:21:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, it's well below scale (6.00 / 1)

Experienced IT managers at large to midsize firms or IT directors at smaller companies make $120K.  

CIOs are in the $150K-$200K range.

Senior network engineers, IT security engineers, developers, project managers, and other technical specialities are making $90-$110K these days.

There's a little thing called inflation - even though it hasn't averaged more than a few percent a year over the last decade, still, a six figure salary isn't what it used to be.

"Perseverance is a great element of success. If you knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody." -Longfellow

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by: Bean in the 'Burbs @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 17:08:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK... (6.00 / 2)

According to the Herald, The highest rate of pay in the Department of State Police, is Superintendent Mark Delaney at 157,496.00/yr.   He EARNED 209,536.10 in 2008, but it doesn't say where, or how he earned it.  The salary rate in the State Police for rank of "Major" is $120K and the rank of "Captain" earns a rate of about $110K.  "Lieutenant" makes about $95K.  

"Earnings" for 2008 are, across the board, larger than the rate... but it is not detailed where these earnings are accrued.  Perhaps overtime?  Perhaps speaking engagements? Perhaps security details?  Unclear...    

---

"Providing health care to the uninsured is a job killer, while not providing health care is merely a people killer....   Bonus: Job Openings!!"

--Stephen Colbert

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by: petr @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 08:52:13 AM CDT

This is why (0.00 / 0)

the construction details thing gets police so worked up.  There is A LOT of money at stake.

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by: David @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:05:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the bump... (0.00 / 0)

I am not picking on the State Troopers from the Mass Pike specifically, nor the Interpreter... I randomly perused the data proved by the Boston Herald and picked the first three instances that turned my stomach. I don't begrudge any of these individuals for making a buck... good for them. What I do have issue with is so many people/programs being cut severely because "we have cut everything else to the bone". Nonsense! You can look at an agency/department in the listing on the Herald (just pick one) and see people making outrageous salaries for simple things and really "do we need that person making that much" relative to a person in Mental Health or Child Services? That's the bone I have to pick. Does Sheriff Andrea Cabral have a problem with 8 Corrections Officers making more money than she does with the top Corrections Officer making $225,578?

Just for chuckles, check out the top State pensions... or the top City pensions. One of my favs was the City paid $139,778 sick day payout for a city worker who saved up his sick days.


Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:05:43 AM CDT

Are we talking Boston or the State here? (0.00 / 0)

There was a pension reform package passed this year.  Still more to do, but I think you have to agree that it's going in the right direction.

Listening to Charlie Baker talk about fiscal responsibility is like getting lectured on abstinence from Paris Hilton - Tim Murray

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by: johnk @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:16:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Excellent point (6.00 / 1)

The lack of transparency cited above is also a huge problem. Why should we have to guess at what accounts for the big difference between official salaries and total earnings when it is our money that is being paid out.  

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:20:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

perhaps you just have an overly delicate stomach? (6.00 / 2)

 

I randomly perused the data proved by the Boston Herald and picked the first three instances that turned my stomach.

I'm quite failing to understand what the relationship is between the wrenchings in your gut, and what we do pay, or ought to pay, to state police officers.

Have you perhaps made a study of of State Police officers around the country? Can you tell us if these rates and/or earnings are, somehow, off the curve?  Perhaps the broader economic jobs available, private security, etc, don't pay anything...

Or did you just see a 'yahoo' sitting in a car and decide, then and there, that you understood the macro-economics of state budgets?  Perhaps you think that, whomever it is that serves the HR function for the Department of State Police, merely rolls dice to set salaries?  

When it comes to being overpaid, police officers, I should think, are probably not the first thing that should come to mind.

---

"Providing health care to the uninsured is a job killer, while not providing health care is merely a people killer....   Bonus: Job Openings!!"

--Stephen Colbert

---

by: petr @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 11:46:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well you should save up your sick days (6.00 / 1)

They are not vacation days or personal days they are sick days.  If you are not sick you should not use them.  In my experience if there is a policy regarding the buyback of unused sick days upon retirement it usually involves paying only 20% or so.  There may be exceptions of which I am not aware.

The biggest problem crushing local budgets is the overtime being paid to police officers and firefighters.  This goes hand in hand with the abuse of sick time.  If we both work at the same firehouse, I call in sick and you get overtime.  I get paid for my sick time of course and you get the overtime.  Next week you return the favor and if you are filling in for someone with a higher paygrade and you are hurt when performing their job, you get the higher payout.

A new culture needs to be cultivated.  One where if you take a sick day and you are not sick you are stealing.  

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by: RegularJoe @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 15:25:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

if you take a sick day and you are not sick you are stealing? (0.00 / 0)

I'm curious how you'd respond if this were instituted at your workplace?

In mine, you have a pool of sick and vacation days.  I can't remember working at a place where such days wren't a limited resource.

If you're saying government employees have unlimited sick days, I'd have a problem with it.  I'd also like to see a citation.

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by: huh @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 15:43:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think there's some goodness to both RegularJoe and huh (0.00 / 0)

The issue is scheduling.  In fire protection, you've got to have fully-staffed shifts.  Always.  In most places of employment, Alice calling out sick doesn't mandate that the company require Billy to explicitly cover that shift.  Most places either have complete slack (nobody covers the shift because it's a white collar job), or some slack (maybe a few hours of OT are needed but they don't cover the whole shift).

It doesn't work that way with fire protection though -- Alice's entire shift has to have exact coverage.

This wouldn't be a problem if requests for vacation and sick time 'requests' were perfectly random.  Then, you essentially hire a few extra firefighters full time, and have them "float" -- filling in for vacation and sick days in different fire companies.  The problem though is that vacations tend to clump around summer, and sure enough, sick time requests do too.  The former is understandable and simply unfortunate; the latter is really problematic.  What do you do when a grown man calls up and tries to bang out on a Thursday shift right before his 2 or 3 or 4 days off in a row?  Doctors note?  Is that sufficient?

Personally, I think a real problem with fire is 24 hour shifts.  Make them 12 hour shifts and then guys don't get as many days off in a row.  Because of that, banging out just one sick day doesn't get them the huge lengthy time off, perfect for a weeks vacation.  It would also keep them more well rested, and make it harder for them to work a landscaping or contracting business on the side... which matters because firemen need to make fast decisions and act quickly, and an overtired firefighter can't do that as well, nor can one who hurt himself hanging drywall and then comes to work at the firehouse anyway, only to get injured on his municipal job.

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by: stomv @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:15:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

maybe I'm naive (0.00 / 0)

You'd think the behavior you describe (repeated sick time abuse) would be subject to disciplinary action.  Fire houses have chiefs, right?

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 07:49:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course (6.00 / 2)

but they walk a fine line between laying down the law and morale.  Besides, if all it takes is a sick note, the firefighter gets to the doctor, complains of [fill in the blank] and gets the note.  Then heads home, loads the kids in the car, and heads out.

It's not so easy a problem to solve.  I believe that 24 hour shifts exacerbate the problem because the consecutive shifts off result in twice as much consecutive time off -- and the longer the consecutive time off, the more incentive to (a) take a sick day or two to create a week's vacation, or (b) get a second job, which leads to substantial increases in fatigue, potentially leading to higher rates of illness and injury on or off the job, serving to exacerbate the OT requirements.

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by: stomv @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:05:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It is odd that you can save up sick days (0.00 / 0)

Most private sector companies stopped allowing sick time rollover years ago. Even vacation rollover is typically limited to a week or two.

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by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:52:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Indeed (6.00 / 2)

In my town, they don't necessarily roll it over, but they don't have to take it either.  End result: department heads get a 10%+ bonus each year, because they don't take any of their 5 weeks sick/vacation time.

It's nuts.  Use it or lose it.  Limited roll-over.  The community loses out twice.  First, it must pay higher wages than it has negotiated and budgeted, and next it turns out that whomever is "second in command" isn't getting adequate on-the-job training because the department head never hands over the keys for a week at a time.

This gets deep into contracts, union and otherwise, and so is way past my pay grade.  My hunch though is that it would do cities and towns an awful lot of good if the state simply required a use-it-or-lose-it policy for sick and vacation days for management positions.

---

by: stomv @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:08:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Are these salaries or total compensation? (0.00 / 0)

The distinction is important.  If they're salaries, they get paid this no matter how many hours they work, if they're total compensation, based upon an hourly rate, then it's a whole different ball game and cops usually get paid by the hour.  Someone with a base rate of $50 per hour (an annual salary based upon 2080 hours, of $104,000) who's also working 30 or 40+ hours of overtime at time and a half or double time, could get up above $200,000 pretty easily.  

From a policy perspective, however, the issue is the $50 per hour, not the total compensation.  The state has X number of police hours it has to cover.  It can fill them with cops all working 40 hours per week, or it can fill them with a smaller number of cops working more than 40 hours.  If filling them with a larger number of cops would be less expensive for the state, fine, but given the fixed costs of hiring additional staff, I wouldn't assume that paying folks time and a half or even double or triple time would actually save the state money.    

The IWW used to say working overtime was scabbing the unemployed, so I'm not defending the practice, but from a policy perspective, it's not as simple as there are dozens of cops making too much money...  

---

by: dhammer @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:19:27 AM CDT

There's a flip side to excessive OT (5.75 / 4)

as well as allowing employees to get their sick days paid out in a clump: those employees are more tired.  I don't want my police officers working 60+ hours a week or 52 weeks a year -- I want their bodies rested and their minds clear and quick when they're on the job.

---

by: stomv @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 09:46:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm not sure where you see me defending excessive overtime (0.00 / 0)

I explicitly didn't defend the practice, catch that IWW reference - scab is about the worst thing I'll ever call someone, and while I couched it in a reference, it's certainly an indication that I'm certainly no fan of the practice.  We could put around 40 additional cops to work by not paying this overtime, with record unemployment, that's good policy.  

From a budget perspective, however, I'm simply pointing out that the notion we could save the state money by paying these particular police officers less money is likely wrong.  

Cut these cops salaries by two thirds and what happens to the police budget at the Turnpike?  It either stays pretty much the same or goes up or down slightly, because every hour of police time is going to be paid.  

---

by: dhammer @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:39:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Even JohnD admitted they're not "salaries" (6.00 / 5)

They're income.  As in, hustled and worked multiple details in addition to a regular job.  As in, makes a lot of money translating documents on the side as an experienced, professional translator as a side business.  As in, works hard to make money on top on the one job.

This is a critical difference that the Heralds and JohnDs of the world are desperate to gloss over.

~~~~
Believe it or not, I have even more to say...

---

by: sabutai @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 10:33:46 AM CDT

happens in the public sector also (6.00 / 2)

I've had this conversation in just about every large company I've ever worked for. Why does (this department that isn't mine) employ so many people? Why do certain people make so much? How does so-and-so keep his/her job?

My point is that things like this are not just endemic to government. IMO they are problems that occur in almost all large organization.

---

by: Jasiu @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 12:43:46 PM CDT

I'd go further and ask (6.00 / 1)

Why does JohnD feel folks working for government shouldn't be paid a competitive wage?  Is $178k high or low for a college president?  How much could a probation officer make in another setting?

Or, using a more JohnD approach, how do low wages relate to bribery, corruption, and a life of lobbying?

I don't endorse the overtime system, but at least it's on the books.

---

by: huh @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 12:57:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree that the state should be competitive with private industries. (6.00 / 1)

Of course, we would have to take into effect the "pension" missing from virtually every private job as well as any other benefit.

How much could a probation officer make is what setting? Where are we losing all the good probation officers to?

I have seen my own kids stumble on budgets when they were young. They would spend disproportionate dollars on some big ticket items while they skimped at the end of the week on the basics. All I was trying to say is the state is skimping by hitting DMR and other agencies while we have thousands of people basking with great pensions, great salaries and great total compensation packages.

It does confuse me to hear people trashing CEOs and other private company people while they seem to instantly defend any public employee even when the are bilking the system out of millions of dollars. What's the outlay for Michael Travaglini making $322,000 per year for a pension or Thomas Kinton Ceo/executive Director of MassPort $300,772.60. Does anyone else think these public pensions are absurd?

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 17:04:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

hold on a second (4.50 / 2)

we have thousands of people basking with great pensions, great salaries and great total compensation packages.

Where did you establish that?

Also, while no one in this discussion has been "trashing CEOs" the complaint there is people taking millions in bonus while their companies tank.

I'm guessing you consider pensions "bilking the system?"

---

by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 08:06:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"They work hard for the money, so hard for it honey..." These are annual PENSIONS! (6.00 / 1)

These are PENSIONS! Can anybody tell us how much money just these listed pensions will cost the taxpayers!!!

Clipping coupons... I don't think so.

Pension Reserves Investment Management Board	Michael Travaglini	Executive Director	$322000
Mass Port	Thomas Kinton	Ceo/executive Director	$300772
Mass Convention Center Authority	James Rooney	Executive Director	$279619
Mass Technology Collaborative	Mitchell L. Adams	Executive Director	$260227
Commonwealth Health INS Connector	Jon M Kingsdale	Executive Director	$240480
Mass Port	Dennis Treece	Director Of Corporate Security	$238673
Pension Reserves Investment Management Board	Karen Gershman	Chief Operating Officer & CFO	$235000
Pension Reserves Investment Management Board	Stanley Mavromates	Chief Investment Officer	$235000
HEFA	Benson Caswell	Executive Director	$225000
Mass Port	George Hertz	Chief Of Staff	$217905
Mass Port	Edward Freni	Director, Aviation	$217255
Massachusetts Housing Partnership	Clark Ziegler	Executive Director	$208361
Massachusetts Educational Financing Authority	Thomas M. Graf	Executive Director	$200556
Pension Reserves Investment Management Board	Wayne Smith	Senior Investment Officer	$200000

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:08:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

you didn't answer the question (0.00 / 0)

In fact, that's under 20...

---

by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 10:28:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm sorry, I'll be explicit... yes I do think "some" pensions quality in my opinion as bilking the system. (6.00 / 1)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:51:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, the part asking you to establish thousands are "basking." (6.00 / 1)

Also that, in fact, this is the biggest problem in the state budget.  As you've demonstrated, it's easy to claim others are over paid and under qualified.  Harder to provide a solution other than firing everyone that's not you...

---

by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 12:28:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, I think this blog is about opinions. (6.00 / 1)

Obviously the more data you have to support your opinion the better. But having said that... I am not a qualified financial expert nor a budget expert. I am on my town energy committee and we all intuitively believe there are places for the town to conserve energy and implement more efficient energy alternatives (solar...) but it has taken us a year to establish a baseline usage, track all fuels and identify accounts and every meter attached to every light pole. It is only now that we can really explore where we can improve things. I feel the same way about the state spending in that I strongly believe we overpay people and we employ far too many people for the job. The types of questions you are asking are fair but I would have to go "beyond my abilities" to find out where, when and who would be cut. I also don't think this is very different from the broad stroke criticisms I hear about Haliburton and other large organizations which we know have problems but would be hard pressed to identify who actually needs to be zapped.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 13:42:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and I think this blog is a marketplace of ideas (6.00 / 1)

Anyone who's been paying attention knows your more than willing to sell tainted and damaged goods. It's only natural to ask for backup.

To the general point: one of the many problems I have with Howie Carr is he's made this sort of shallow analysis acceptable. Are there overpaid folks in government?  Almost certainly, just as there overpaid folks in the private sector (the healthcare insurance industry springs to mind).  Are we paying for them? Yes, in both cases.  Is that the biggest issue facing us?  Not from the evidence you've presented.

As KBusch notes below, we've just come off sixteen years of Republican governors, all of whom campaigned on fiscal responsibility.  Mr. Romney based a good chunk of his Presidential campaign message on how he cut waste and taxes in this state. We've had politician after politician run as outsiders.  We've had years of suffering under proposition 2 and 1/2.

And yet, you're still complaining about individual salaries... and your brethren in the Senate are focusing on flag education.

It does strike me that eliminating sick day and vacation rollover would be a very good thing.  The Governor has made some good steps for pension reform as well. I'm still not certain that eliminating the MDC made things better, but  the suggestion of more centralized community college services might be a good idea. All seem healthier than the post that started this discussion.

---

by: huh @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 22:49:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

State Employees Benefits ? (0.00 / 0)

The flag issue is just plan stupid,   if the republicans want to remain a marginal party this is a great issue.

Regarding these salaries, they are certainly competitive (I think overly generous) with the private sector, but  something that has been missed in this discussion is the benefits. There are NO and I mean NO private sector companies that offer what the state does which I believe is; 15 sick days, 15 holidays 3 weeks vacation, 1 paid volunteer day a month  and a pension with full health care. When do state workers work out of 260 available days to work a year, they get 57 days off a year?

BTW when I volunteer I do it after hours or on weekend.

---

by: roarkarchitect @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:36:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And I'm sure you don't get "paid" for doing "volunteer" work. (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:50:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

you're forgetting... (0.00 / 0)

....that state employees don't get social security or 401(k).  Having health care isn't standard, but with the exception of MassPort, the numbers make sense.

The sick day and vacation carry over seems excessive, but the actual amount of vacation is right in line with industry. Holidays are within range as well. I can also name several companies off the top of my head that give days off for volunteer work.

I disagree  on the salaries being competitive.  For the ones I'm familiar with, they're considerably below private sector.  Again, it would useful to compare to other states and programs.

For the record, I'm a private sector VP.  I work with HR to do compensation analysis as part of my annual budgeting.

---

by: huh @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 11:03:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was wrong (0.00 / 0)

Sorry they start at 2 weeks and go to 5 weeks after 20 years. 5 weeks is excessive.

I don't think companies who are having financial problems give time off to volunteer, or they don't stay around for long.

I understand they have their own pension system, but why don't they pay taxes when the pension exceeds social security amounts ?

---

by: roarkarchitect @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 13:20:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

STATE PENSIONS ARE MA TAX FREE (0.00 / 0)

These pensions are state tax free! If you work in the private sector and lucky enough to have a pension or 401K it's taxed by the state. The argument is that social security is not taxed by the state but these pensions are 10 to 15 times greater than the maximum social security pays. This is not fair to private sector employees. This is just wrong.

---

by: roarkarchitect @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 20:35:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Get your facts straight, you're way off on your numbers (6.00 / 2)

The maximum monthly payment for Social Security is $2,323 per month (or $28,876 annually).  The average Massachusetts pension amount is $24,000 a figure supported by the latest issue of Commonwealth Magazine - but a subscription ID is required.

That's 13% less than the maximum Social Security payout.    

---

by: dhammer @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:24:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

more taxes (0.00 / 0)

So 322K/24K is 13 times the maximum Social Security Payment. In tight revenue times why not tax anything about the 24K ? all us in the private sector are taxed at dollar one.
 

---

by: roarkarchitect @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 08:59:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't give up! Ask State workers to give up their pensions and go on Social Security (3.50 / 2)

and enjoy the silence!

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 08:37:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Many wish they could. (6.00 / 2)

State workers are not usually eligible for Social Security, due to a bad Dukakis era decision not to become a contibutory state.  Their pensions ARE their Social Security.  This is also why their Social Security checks are reduced by the amount of thier state pension if they do qualify (usually, it's a widow - she had gotten state pension, he had gotten SS. When he dies, she can only get whatever he was collecting BEYOND the amount of her pension, often leading to a 50% cut income).

Also why they can't be put into a 401-k, unless MA BECOMES a contributory state.  A good idea, but politically difficult.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 08:52:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

do you recall the reasoning? (0.00 / 0)

State pensions in lieu of Social Security and 401(k)s appear to have created a unique world of problems and corruption.

---

by: huh @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 11:26:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Egg came before chicken (0.00 / 0)

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away - a Social Security system was failing....

A President looked around for a painless way to boost incoming payment.  AHA!  Federal employees!  They had a pension only - make THEM begin to pay into the system!  THAT was done immidiately.  I was a Fed. employee at the time, and there was much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, but within a year or so, everybody had adapted, and in fact, Fed. employees can now have both SocSec AND a Fed pension.

Still looking - all the state employees!  INCENTIVIZE!  A law passed that 'encouraged' states to join SocSec.  Because if they didn't, there would be an 'offset' - any SocSec that a state employee DID qualify for would be reduced by the state pension.  If the person qualified for $500/mo. SocSec, but had a non-contributory state pension of $600/mo. - well, no soup for you!

All but a half dozen states fell into line - MA being one of them.  Why?  Well, the President was a Republican.  Much was made by Dukakoids of the Federal Government having the temerity to overrule the decisions of a soverign state and impose Federal law (pause for derisive snort).

Periodically, state unions breathlessly announce that a prominent Mass Dem - this year, it's Barney Frank's turn - has filed legislation to eliminate the offset and all the union hacks dance about and encourage members to dream that the bill may pass.  Yes siree, all that has to happen is for the other 40+ states to vote not to require MA to do what they require their own people to do - pay into SocSec.  Because, as we all know - MA is special.  Yes, siree, bob.

Of course, your question implies that there WAS reasoning...

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 23:20:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I ran across this (6.00 / 1)

months ago. I think during the time we were debating the sales tax increase and other tax increases.  These salaries are over the top.  Our town just used stimulus money to hire back an EMT that was let go during budget cuts. Because of cuts, we had been left with only on-call EMT personnel available at night.  

In overall perspective, these people are not worth these salaries.  Whether achieved by working overtime or not.$175,000/yr ++ is absurd.  EMT's start at less than $35,000/yr. I think we should cut the State police to $85,000/yr, raise the EMT's salary to $50,000/yr and still save money.

---

by: liveandletlive @ Tue Oct 27, 2009 at 16:11:13 PM CDT

Random Whacks at Public Sector Employees (5.83 / 6)

I know the state has some serious issues with the use of troopers on detail work. But I want to address the seemingly random slaps at a couple of additional state employees in the original post.  I am not a public sector employee, but I have a lot of respect for the large number of public employees who work hard for all of us (I know some don't, but many do).

I do think we have to pay Cape Cod CC's president as much as we do.  Frankly, I'm surprised it isn't more.  Some of the presidents at other community colleges in this state make more than she does (Holyoke CC and Mt. Wachusett CC's presidents both make more than $200,000 per year, though both schools are larger). For our money, we get someone with a doctorate and teaching experience in areas key to the college, 30 years of experience, who manages a $30 million budget and sits on the boards of several economic development organizations on the Cape. (Full disclosure: I don't know this person at all in any context).  Her job exists in a national market of such jobs, many of which pay more than she makes.

As to the interpreter, the poster might want to check the hourly rates for interpreters. Before you assume the obscure language, you might want to consider that it may well be that this was a sign language interpreter.  When a community college (or any college) admits a hearing-impaired student, it bears the cost of hiring appropriate interpreters to allow the student to participate in classes and assignments. Signers aren't cheap, especially if they need specialized vocabulary for health care, business, or other pre-professional training. Eliminate the position and you'll put the college out of compliance with the law.  It's just the way it is, like it or not.

The bigger question is whether we need as many administrative fiefdoms for all the community colleges we have.  It seems to me that we could combine campuses into larger administrative units, merge back office functions, share some academic departments to enrich offerings, and potentially save some significant money. Our community colleges have much smaller head counts of students than many around the country.  I'd much rather work that direction.

---

by: bluefolkie @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 09:11:48 AM CDT

Better Comment of the Day (6.00 / 3)

This would have been a far better comment of the day than JohnD's.

Let me get this straight: Democrats protest war, Republicans protest health care?

---

by: tblade @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:21:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm so hurt by this unnecessary comment of the day from tblade. (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 11:53:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah, if only... (6.00 / 3)

...if only I held such power, JohnD.


Let me get this straight: Democrats protest war, Republicans protest health care?

---

by: tblade @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 12:39:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah, well, he's not (6.00 / 1)

one of the holy differently winged.  (Shrug)

---

by: lightiris @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 18:43:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

An HR Department run by amateurs? (6.00 / 4)

Well, yes, this level of compensation does look high. As others have said, it's not just salary and it's unclear where it comes from and whether it should be a problem.

On the other hand, I don't think many of on this thread have long experience with compensation analysis; I know I'm not qualified to say how much a good college president costs you. We certainly want these things done correctly.

I also find these figures surprising because we just came off of 16 years of Republican governors beginning with Weld who promised to be tough and ending with Romney who promised to eliminate waste. If these figures were out of line, what were they doing?

Sitting in cruisers?

This just tells me that we have a long ways to go before the state is as well managed as it need be.

---

by: KBusch @ Wed Oct 28, 2009 at 19:45:04 PM CDT

Thank you KBusch for eloquently saying what I was trying to say (with attitude). (0.00 / 0)

This just tells me that we have a long ways to go before the state is as well managed as it need be.

I did not do any detailed analysis on compensation for these employees. I was simply stating (in responding to a diary about "time to raise taxes") that there is still plenty of waste in state government. That's it. I offered some examples of what I thought "on the surface" were excesses. I spent no more than 10 minutes looking for some data. I have almost no idea whether these salaries are justified but they just "smelled bad" to me. If I were working for the Inspector General of MA then I would look much further before I made a charge but did you see what we will be paying some of the MassPort people when they retire?

And I did cop an attitude when BMGers seemed to be "OK" with these salaries. People have to understand that for every one of someone's $200K or $300K annual pension (for 20-30 years) or every dollar spent on excessive numbers of college administrators, one less dollar will go to truly needy causes and programs within the state. That was my only point and being dismissive of my comments does nothing to change the tide.

Deval's reforms were a start but were a joke (IMO) regarding their impact. While Howie Carr does not get at the details of much of what he reports, he does at least bring light to situations which might need some scrutiny and we all know that Beacon Hill does there best work in the dark.

Deval has suffered from what the previous Republican Governors have suffered from which is they do not run the state, Beacon Hill does. Our Senators and Representatives bare the blame for inaction.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 07:47:49 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Salary negotiations (0.00 / 0)

are not usually conducted by state Senators.

---

by: KBusch @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 09:37:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

KB - the checkbook is. (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

---

by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 08:54:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

calling what you did "copping an attitude" is being way to nice (6.00 / 1)

You accused anyone who questioned your posting of "only caring about state workers " Never mind that your facts were wrong and your logic skewed.  

In the time you spent attacking every single post that questioned your premise, you could have actually done some research.  Or even made concrete suggestions, as bluefokie did in his FAR superior comment.

If you think Deval's reforms were a "joke" please at least say why or how you thought they could be better.

I don't expect an answer, but we've had years of politicians running and getting elected as reformers and outsiders.  Why do you think things haven't changed?

---

by: huh @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 10:09:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not expecting an answer? (6.00 / 2)

Of course, JohnD will answer — perhaps not to your satisfaction, but on an answer you can count.

---

by: KBusch @ Thu Oct 29, 2009 at 21:25:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

you're right as always (0.00 / 0)

He didn't answer the question or even advance the conversation, but he did answer.

---

by: huh @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 11:08:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'll answer. (0.00 / 0)

First attitude brims from almost every one of your posts so don't make it sound like a unique trait of mine. I'll stick by everything I said. My logic is just fine. The Gov announced cuts yesterday which will be sure to annoy and irritate the common folk while the people whom I alluded to making 6 figure salaries in this state will get passes. And I will continue to say that people like you who attack criticisms (thus defending these "fat cats") do nothing to fix this problem. Sleep well tonight.

Thank goodness Deval will be a one term Governor.

Have a nice weekend.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

---

by: JohnD @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 08:30:38 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Except, you're wrong. (6.00 / 1)

Furloughs abound in his cuts.  Given that the folks you point out make more, they give up more money with each day furloughed.  Specifically:

The Governor is also requiring the approximately 4,000 managers within the executive branch to take up to nine furlough days through the remainder of the fiscal year in order to achieve additional savings.

Now, is it every person on your list?  I doubt it.  But, does it include people on your list?  I'd bet it does.  Also note that it explicitly states managers -- he's not furloughing everyone, but rather the folks on top, who have salaries too high for your good taste.

So, when you state The Gov announced cuts yesterday which will be sure to annoy and irritate the common folk while the people whom I alluded to making 6 figure salaries in this state will get passes, you're just plain wrong.

---

by: stomv @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 09:35:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amateur at HR (6.00 / 1)

You're not thinking this through. Aren't some salaries partly contractual? You can't wave a magic wand and cut them.

The state police may or may not be overcompensated. No one has provided enough data to determine this. Let's assume they are for the sake of argument. Let's also assume that it was within Weld's, Cellucci's, Swift's, and Romney's power to reduce their compensation -- oh and Patrick's too. What's the effect on morale of doing that? How is this usually done with police forces without having side-effects like non-enforcement of the law or rogue behavior? Certainly, if you believe Weld, Cellucci, Swift, or Romney more competent than Patrick, why didn't they pull off this feat?

In short, this is not something you can just do in non-monarchical forms of government.

---

by: KBusch @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 09:44:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

where to start? (6.00 / 1)

1) Whether or not Deval is a one term Governor or not, you still haven't addressed the fundamental question.  Deval Patrick was preceded by SIXTEEN YEARS of Republican governors, almost all of whom promised to cut waste.  On top of that, we've had years of politicians running and getting elected as reformers and outsiders.  

Why do you think things haven't changed?

2) stomv already addressed your logic regarding the Governor's cuts. I'd still love to hear why you think his pension reforms were "a joke."

3) Pointing out that your claims are false isn't "attacking criticism."  Several posters, including me, pointed out areas which could realistically be cut and provided real world comparisons.  This is in marked contrast to you. I'd love to hear suggestions beyond "fire people." It's been done. Predictably, you're already complaining about it.

4) I didn't bring up attitude, you did.  I was pointing out that you weren't "copping attitude" you were silencing and insulting dissenters. There's nothing wrong with attitude, per se. Attitude without facts or backing is a different story...

---

by: huh @ Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 11:22:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]