Is Stephen Lynch Against 32 Million People Getting Healthcare?

Don't blame him. (6.00 / 3)

Blame the Cadillac Tax. It's bad for Massachusetts residents, who have the highest health insurance premiums in the nation.  

"The world was made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness." ~Annie Savoy, Bull Durham

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by: Justice4All @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 19:41:32 PM CDT

I Agree the Tax Sucks, But (5.00 / 2)

That's no reason to kill the whole thing, and any chance of changing the terms of discourse around health care for a generation with it.  Pass it, and then fight to make it better. Even the AFL-CIO, Change to Win, and SEIU get this, and have endorsed passing the bill.

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by: Jim Weliky @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 19:54:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Trust (6.00 / 2)

Do you really trust these guys (Obama, Reid and Pelosi) to look out for Massachusetts?  We're going to take this thing on the chin.  No, I don't want the tax...why should I be penalized for living in Massachusetts?  I'm already up to my eyeballs, thanks, with college tuitions, a new home with corresponding mortgage, and a wedding next year.

And it's not just the Cadillac tax...and it's not just about insuring the uninsured.  If this country wanted to insure the uninsured, this damned bill would be ten pages long instead of the thousands of pages it is.  This is more than that....which Rep. Lynch gets.  From the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/pol...

"We've paid the ransom, but at the end of the day the insurance companies are still holding the hostages," Lynch said in an interview with the Globe early this afternoon. "This is a very good bill for insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. It might be good for Nebraska, I don't know. Or Florida residents...But it's not good for the average American, and it's not good for my district. Or for Massachusetts."
He said he opposes the so-called Cadillac tax the Senate adopted that would put a surcharge on expensive health insurance plans, and he is also disappointed that the final bill doesn't include proposals to allow states to adopt a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers.

"The insurers still rule," he said. "Were just pumping subsidies into the current system, but that won't drive down costs."

"The world was made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness." ~Annie Savoy, Bull Durham

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by: Justice4All @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 20:05:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No I Don't Trust Them (5.50 / 4)

It's up to us to fight for a better bill, starting the day after this one's signed.  As I said, I agree with his criticisms. But if this one isn't signed, then there's no health care reform for a long time. I too am up to my eyeballs with house, kid going to college, etc. But I'm also  concerned about the 32 million people who won't get healthcare if this doesn't pass.

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by: Jim Weliky @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 20:13:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Better bill (6.00 / 3)

I have no illusions Jim, about how long it will take to fix this bill.  It can take years...years of an undeserved 40% (forty percent)tax...when I am already strapped.  Why shouldn't they just fix this damn thing now and be done with it?  Deliver a good bill that insures the uninsured without killing the rest of us. This is the worst economy in decades, and now I am expected, in addition to the struggles I am already facing to suck it up and pay approximately $5,200 extra in taxes to help subsidize  Louisiana. I guess I'm not feeling all that altruistic these days.  

"The world was made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness." ~Annie Savoy, Bull Durham

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by: Justice4All @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 21:13:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

40% of the amount ABOVE $27,000 family/ $8000 individual (6.00 / 3)

So, if you expect to pay $5200 in the excise tax - for a family plan, that would mean your plan costs $40,000.  So you would pay 40% of $13,000, which is the excess over the $27,000.  It's possible that your plan is $40,000, but considering that the average family plan in MA is 13,000, I'd be surprised.    

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by: merolph @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 21:53:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Produce the links (4.00 / 1)

Because NPR doesn't say that:

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...

Obama included a scaled-down version of the tax in his health overhaul plan. In his proposal, the tax would go into effect in 2018. Dental and vision plans would not be included in the total. Individual plans that cost more than $10,200, and family plans over $27,500 would be taxed.

There's nothing that says that tax only applies to the amount above $10K/$27,500.  so please produce the links.  Thanks


"The world was made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness." ~Annie Savoy, Bull Durham

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by: Justice4All @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 22:03:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It would be awfully strange if it didn't. (6.00 / 1)

$27,499 plan?  $0 tax.
$27,501 plan?  $11,000 tax.

I know folks don't think legislators are the brightest CFL in the carton, but I suspect they didn't write the tax policy quite like you suggest.

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by: stomv @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 22:25:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Excise tax is on amount ABOVE THRESHOLDS (6.00 / 5)

Yes, the NPR statement "Individual plans that cost more than $10,200, and family plans over $27,500 would be taxed" is sloppy - one of my huge gripes with NPR reporting.  Not exactly untrue, because the PLAN would be taxed, but only on the amount EXCEEDING those thresholds.  

Ezra Klein of Wash. Post writes daily on health care reform http://voices.washingtonpost.c...
"On a superficial level, the policy is simple enough: Health-care premiums above $21,000 for families, and $8,000 for individuals, are hit with a 40 percent surtax. So if your family's insurance plan costs $23,000 a year, then $2,000 of it will be taxed at 40 percent. The tax will be levied on the insurer, who will in turn pass it onto your employer, who will in turn pass it onto you."

He is referring to the earlier thresholds; I will get a link with the updated numbers.  

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by: merolph @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 07:52:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

tax insurers 40 percent on the amount of premiums above the thresholds (6.00 / 2)

From Kaiser Health News Mar 18, 2010
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.or...
"In the Democrats' reconciliation bill - actually an amendment to the Senate-passed health bill - a high-cost health plan is defined as costing more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, including worker and employer contributions to flexible spending or health savings accounts. The cost does not include stand-alone vision or dental benefits. The tax would not be imposed until 2018, giving health plans more time to benefit from possible cost savings from other reform measures. Employers with a preponderance of older or female workers who have higher-than-average health costs would receive a break in the form of higher thresholds. ...

The health bill would tax insurers 40 percent on the amount of premiums above the thresholds."  

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by: merolph @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 08:51:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wow (6.00 / 2)

Do you really not understand how taxation works?  It only applies to the amounts above the threshold.  If your plan is worth $27,501 your total tax bill will be 40 cents.  

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by: bigmikek7 @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 08:52:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lots of people don't (6.00 / 4)

Lots of people don't seem to understand how taxation works.  There was considerable wailing and gnashing of teeth from the right-wing blogosphere over the idea that the Obama administration wanted to raise taxes on people making over $250k, with many people pledging to cut back their productivity to try to make sure they made no more than $249,999.

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.

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by: smadin @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 09:16:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That level of stupidity is stunning (6.00 / 1)

They don't deserve to make that amount of money

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by: bigmikek7 @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 09:21:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Please don't do that. (5.75 / 4)

1.  Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity.  Being ignorant of the mechanics of tax policy does not imply that a person is stupid.

2.  Don't confuse smarts with deserving to make money.  They may be positively correlated, but intelligence isn't the only talent that the marketplace values, nor should it be.

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by: stomv @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 10:10:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree (0.00 / 0)

However, understanding how marginal tax rates work is a pretty basic part of civics education, so it's troubling that so many people don't understand, and think that a $1 increase in annual income could mean an enormous jump in taxes.

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.

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by: smadin @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 10:15:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A big part of what keeps a certain political party viable... (6.00 / 4)

is making sure that so many people DON'T understand a pretty basic part of civics education.  

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by: cr_aig @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:13:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Smadin - they may have had that experience in a different context (5.00 / 1)

Example - MassHealth.

Used to deal with retirees on MassHealth.  One example - disabled man was $10 below threshhold.  Got COLA, and lost not only MassHealth, but food stamps, many other things because he was then $17/mo over.  Talked to 'Rich' and asked what could be done - was told ceiling was inflexible, agreed that man lost hundreds in benefits for a $27 increase.  Asked if exception could be made, was told that even if he could - if he made such an exception for $17, I'd be back the next week with somebody who was $19 over, then $22...which was perectly true.

Asked what could be done.  Rich suggested man write letter declining COLA, put him back below threshhold.  Agreed this was temporary solution, but fixed things for now.

If somebody had such an experience - why WOULDN'T they think $1 over would be a trigger?  Government does stupid things like that all the time - and I would suggest you shouldn't be so darn sure they aren't doing it now as well.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:41:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Apples and oranges (5.00 / 1)

Taxation is a completely different subject from what you're talking about.  I'm not aware of any tax which kicks in over a particular threshold, but also hits income below that threshold.  If you are, please explain.

If somebody had such an experience - why WOULDN'T they think $1 over would be a trigger?

Knowing basic facts about how marginal tax rates work is why.  I thought that point had already been covered.

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.

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by: smadin @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:52:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Smadin - as I tried to convey, the general public may not 'get' the difference. Gubmint is Gubmint. (5.50 / 2)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 18:19:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Marginal Taxes Rates Education - No (0.00 / 0)

I don't think the concept of marginal tax rates is ever taught except in specialized courses. Periodically stupid tax policy does create weird incentives. At one point you lost your social security if you earned $1.00 over a threshold - this has been fixed but I had a semi-retired employee who would stopped working when he got close to the amount.

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by: roarkarchitect @ Sat Mar 20, 2010 at 08:37:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lots of things are "bad for Massachusetts residents." (6.00 / 1)

Massachusetts residents also have some of the highest incomes in the nation. So the surtax would also hurt Massachusetts residents disproportionately, and more generally taxes on the rich would. Political decisions shouldn't be based on parochial calculations of whether something benefits Massachusetts, because sometimes the fair thing is for Massachusetts to take it on the chin.

The excise tax is good policy. It helps lower health care costs by punishing expensive plans, and very gently nudges people from employer provided health care to the health insurance exchanges. Adjusting for differences due to overall cost of living would be a nice bonus, but not that big a deal.

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by: UserGoogol @ Thu Mar 18, 2010 at 23:32:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I will call (6.00 / 2)

but to thank him for a NO vote!

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by: Lasthorseman @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 06:10:07 AM CDT

That's Right. Right Now He's A HERO (6.00 / 1)

.
WTF happened to Kucinich on that plane?

This bill isn't reform, it's a GIVEAWAY.

We deserve what the other 1st world nations have, and nothing less.

Read this link from Jane Hamsher over at FDL:

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.c...

Welcome everyone!
.

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by: lakezoarian @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:19:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Death threat? (0.00 / 0)

I assume he was "Paul Wellstoned".

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by: Lasthorseman @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 17:07:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

While you're at it (6.00 / 3)

Will you tell them you are against: Vaccinations, Fluoridation & Black Helicopters of any kind?

Context is critical.

A consensus formed from the echo of parrots, is no consensus.
I'm Jack Mitchell and I'm confused by this message.

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by: John from Lowell @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:31:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Context is everything. (6.00 / 1)

He shouldn't neglect to tell him, as well, how Comcast is actually broadcasting some sort of rhythmic tone that induces coma so that we will be more docile for the looming apocalypse.

I think that's pretty high priority information right there.  

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by: lightiris @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 17:22:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Spoilsport! (6.00 / 1)

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by: Edgarthearmenian @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 17:48:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hey, I saw Videodrome too! (6.00 / 1)

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.

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by: smadin @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 17:58:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Really, did you not see that (0.00 / 0)

zombinalic C O M C A S T commercial.  100 channels of mindless crap and a super surveillance digital permanent record of all you phone calls directly archived at the NSA to boot!

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by: Lasthorseman @ Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 14:59:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, I did not. (0.00 / 0)

I don't watch television.  

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by: lightiris @ Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 16:08:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Medicare You Can Buy Into (6.00 / 1)

I like Grayson's Public Option Act too.  Currently, half our House delegation is co-sponsoring it - can we find out where the other half stand?

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by: Cos @ Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 15:52:12 PM CDT