Actually a pretty big deal.
Governor Deval Patrick said yesterday that construction will begin this summer on a long-promised, long-delayed commuter rail link to Fall River and New Bedford. State officials said they would spend $20 million of federal stimulus funds to rebuild structurally deficient freight bridges in New Bedford and prepare them for commuter rail.
There’s a long way to go — estimates now are that this is a $1.5-2 billion, 7-year project, and it’s not currently clear where the money is coming from. But the Patrick administration’s acquisition of 37 miles of track from CSX is the biggest, most tangible step in years toward making South Coast rail a reality. Interestingly, Charlie Baker is opposed, while his mentor Bill Weld was for it (but didn’t do anything about it – surprise).
Charles D. Baker, a Republican who is challenging Patrick in the race for governor this year, called South Coast Rail “yet another example of overspending and overcommitting at a point in time when taxpayers are desperate for the Commonwealth to live within its means.” … Governors and gubernatorial candidates have made promises about South Coast rail going back to William Weld, who once told Fall River residents to “sue me” if he failed to deliver.
Governing for the long term. Getting things done that will actually help people. Not a bad platform for reelection, really.
stomv says
south shore folks will see that Patrick is making progress on a major project they want — one that other regions near to Boston have gotten but these folks haven’t.
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p>The reality is that right now the MBTA couldn’t afford to run it. That’s OK though: it’s not going to be operated for at least seven years, maybe longer. In the mean time, Patrick and Murray made moves with CSX which make this project easier to accomplish, and this portion of the project is being paid for by the Feds.
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p>I wish we could figure out how to get Feds/Lege to pay for some capital projects which will lower costs (or generate extra revenue) to help the MBTA meet it’s budget gap. Safety upgrades, signal/switching improvements, replacing worn out equipment which has high maintenance costs, traffic signal prioritization to help cut down on OT (and improve on-time and average-time performances), etc. This South Coast project has no net impact on the MBTA budget anytime soon, so I certainly don’t begrudge it.
ryepower12 says
We spend $1.2 billion a year on corporate tax credits…
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p>Well, $1,200,000,000 * 7 = $8,400,000,000
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p>Seems to me that if this state had the right priorities, we could afford to do not only this project in 7 years, but several projects of that same scale during that same time-frame, without depending on the federal government and without needing to raise revenues or make cuts to other state programs. This should be a win, win, win, were it not for the power of corporate lobbyists.
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p>I would be willing to bet that that one job alone would do more for job creation than the entire $1.2 billion we spend on mostly wasteful and inefficient tax credits per year. How about this: We spend roughly $200 million a year so we can have Tom Cruise and other Hollywood types come to Massachusetts on a more regular basis to shoot films, despite the fact that studios don’t have to hire anyone who pays Massachusetts income taxes, get 1/4 of their cost of filming in Massachusetts paid for… and don’t even have to pay Massachusetts sales taxes. Seems to me that $200 million a year would put a large dent in a project that would cost $1.7 billion over 7 years. That’s just one of those tax credits per year, and it could build the freaking train to New Bedford. Why hasn’t this happened yet?
stomv says
The details not so much. Of course we want 80% Fed match, and if it takes a few more years but we get the match, it’s worth the wait.
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p>As for that $1.2B, just using that for one year on the MBTA to buy down their debt would take a huge chunk out of their debt service payments, and would therefore go a long way toward a balanced budget at the T. A few years of that $1.2B and the MBTA would be operating in the black, and then be in position to be able to handle expanded service to places like South Shore.
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p>
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p>The details aren’t as important as your point. We can either attract business by cutting taxes, or we can attract business by making Massachusetts a great place to do business — good health care, good education, good transportation, good government services. We’ve got the first two (though lower costs would be nice). Let’s do the latter two. So long as we’re going to spend public funds to attract business, let’s do it by creating amenities that the citizenry can enjoy instead of by using tax cuts from which corporate non-citizens benefit.
ryepower12 says
Just because I said we could fund it ourselves, doesn’t mean I think we should — but having funding available and having the project ready is often key to getting that federal funding in the first place.
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p>I also agree with you about using a hefty chunk of that $1.2b to pay down the T’s debt. It’s a good chunk of change that could do a lot of good, paying down that T debt and other burdensome debt over the short term, while funding expansion projects for public transportation in the long term. I’d also like to see a large portion of it go to public higher ed, especially given the fact that our state funds public higher ed 49th out of 50th in the country. The lack of state funding for public higher education holds this state back, big time.
david-whelan says
That one’s been on the table for 20 years +/-.
stomv says
Given that potential casino sites are on the Blue, I’d bet they won’t (really) consider expanding the Blue until they reach a new “steady state” once casino users and employees are riding the Blue. Then, they’ll determine how much expansion can be met without having to run more/longer trains.
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p>And then they’ll put it in the queue.
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p>Remember, the Green expansion was the result of a court order, not anything that the MBTA particularly wanted. In fact, the MBTA green visor employees hate this expansion because it puts them farther in the red; the fare revenue won’t cover the additional costs.
david-whelan says
There is already a Wonderland stop and a Suffolk Downs stop. The blue line extension dialog has been in play for 20 plus years and the extension has always been about getting the blue line to Lynn. Extending the blue line has nothing to do with casinos.
stomv says
The operation of Wonderland and Suffolk Downs had a very different employee profile than the operations of a casino. The number of employees, shift times, etc. are dramatically different. If the usage of the Blue Line were to increase dramatically once these casinos are in full swing, then there may not be sufficient capacity once the Blue Line got extended to handle the new passengers without running more kits… driving up both capital and operations cost.
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p>I doubt very much that this would be the case, but it would be important to know the usage from current users (once/if the casino is in place) before expanding, because an expansion does no good if the train is already packed.
cos says
It runs during the weekday commute.
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p>It addresses the people sitting in their cars on I-93 & I-95, getting nowhere fast.
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p>It tells them about Patrick’s plan to get a bunch of the drivers around them off the road by running a train to where they live.
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p>Then it quotes Baker calling this a waste.
stomv says
Stuck in traffic on 128? Look left. Now look right. One of those two would be on a commuter rail into Boston if it exists. Deval Patrick is working to make it happen — he’s got construction crews upgrading the bridges as we speak. Charlie Baker: “yet another example of overspending.”
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p>Would you consider it a poor investment if that driver to your right or left was on the train instead of tying up traffic?
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p>Patrick/Murray.
charley-on-the-mta says
Stuck in traffic on 128? Look left. Now look right. Look left. Look right again. Now look at your man. He’s driving slow — unlike me, riding a train. I’m the man your man could be commuting like. Now look at my hand — it’s a raw oyster, which you could be eating tonight in the city instead of sitting in your car. Now look again — it’s DIAMONDS.
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p>I’m on a horse.
thinkingliberally says
“Tired of the 90-minute commute, day after day? Tired of getting on the road by 7am, only to get home so late, you barely get to see your kids before they go to bed? Governor Deval Patrick is working to get you access to downtown Boston in under an hour. Charlie Baker and Tim Cahill? They think helping give Southeastern Massachusetts easier, cheaper, and more efficient access to the rest of the state is just too much trouble. Tell us what you think at…”
ed-poon says
when you can have a 90-plus-minute rail commute!
stomv says
Besides, 90 minutes reading the paper/working the double-thumbed emails/resting with eyes closed sure beats sitting in bumper to bumper.
ed-poon says
As I’ve noted before, Worcester is 90 min on the MBTA timetable (so realistically add at least 5 min more), and is substantially closer to Boston.
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p>And even if you’re right, apparently we’re going to spend $1.4b to get just 5,000 people per day to take this train. Twice the cost of the Green Line extension to Medford. Three times the cost of extending the Blue Line to Lynn. Brilliant.
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p>Bristol County is the West Virginia of Massachusetts — there is no share of public largesse that they will not get a piece of.
stomv says
The distance isn’t nearly as important as the number of stops. It’s slowing down, being stopped, and accelerating that takes the bulk of the time, not distance.
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p>As for the cost, extending the Green or Blue doesn’t exactly cost what you suggest, and here’s why: congestion. Park Street Station is currently the busiest; the Green underground is squeezed full. There’s very little capacity to add new passengers during peak times for some underground portions of the T. But South Coast will use it too, right? Well sure… those who aren’t going to downtown. Those who work downtown will get out of the commuter rail at South Station and walk — it’s not worth switching. So, 5000 more riders in the system, but nowhere near 5000 more new riders in the congested portions. That’s much different than a Green Line extension, which would increase use exactly at the most stressed portion. So, the math isn’t quite so easy.
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p>As for the “we” — who is we? Frankly, I have no problem with the 299 million folks who won’t ride the T very often paying for the 80% that the Feds pick up. I’m a big fan of that — I pay for their highways after all. Now, is the 20% share of capital (plus the operating costs) worth it to MA? I don’t know. Might it be worth it 5/10/15 years in the future? Youbetcha. Might as well use Federal stimulus dollars to put us in the right position later.
sabutai says
I think we’re two months away from an ad featuring Baker standing in front of a team of firefighters battling a house blaze, calling it a “waste of taxpayer money”.
charley-on-the-mta says
“Get used to that 13% unemployment. You’re barely part of the state anyway.”
joets says
Give me a fucking break. I was second-guessing my vote based on the premiums-salary HPH ratio, but now I’m just not going to vote.
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p>Loser.
couves says
And “it’s not currently clear where the money is coming from.” That’s an understatement — I just don’t think there is the political appetite to pay for this project.
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p>Patrick’s down payment will be seen as a good faith effort to South Coast voters who want the rail. But elsewhere in the state, this could easily play as “20 million dollars for a bunch of bridges supporting a nonfunctioning rail.”
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p>People see the need for repairs on bridges they drive over every day. Putting 20 million towards a highly speculative 2 billion dollar “rail to nowhere” (the unfortunate perception of New Bedford) is not going to be seen as a sensible decision by everyone.
stomv says
(well, I am, but it’s a reasonable conclusion to make).
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p>Thing is: all major projects start with a small investment that offers no-backs-no-refunds. Want to build an addition to your home? Pay an architect and an engineer to make sure it’s feasible. You don’t get a refund if you don’t build it.
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p>This is small potatoes, it’s not even MA money (fed stimulus), and those bridges are an important part of the transportation infrastructure even before South Coast Rail… they’re used for freight. You know, goods? Either to buy ’em or to manufacture ’em and sell ’em?
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p>I agree that there isn’t the political appetite to write a $2B check. But, that’s not how these projects get done. First of all, an 80% match from the Fed (possible but certainly not guaranteed) brings the state cost to $400M, far more manageable. Secondly, the project will take place over many years… it’s possible that spreading the payments out over a longer period — particularly if that longer period includes a time of rising gas prices and an improving economy — the interest will be there.
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p>
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p>I think it plays like a dog whistle. South Coast voters hear the whistle and will respond positively to Patrick. The rest of the voters in the state won’t hear the whistle at all. Great politics, and good decision making to boot.
ruppert says
First of all, no way it comes in under $2 bil. Second if you build it even with Fed money, or MA general funds, HOW does the T run it? It would bleed T completely dry from an operational standpoint. Gov. Patrick needs to explain that before continuing this ongoing charade.
stomv says
First of all, no way you have any idea what it will cost. Second if you build it even with Fed money, or MA general funds, the T doesn’t run commuter rail; it’s privatized.
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p>Governor Patrick need explain nothing to knee-jerks like you, because you wouldn’t bother to listen anyway.
ruppert says
Stomv; It is South Coast (New Bedford), Not South Shore.
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p>South Shore has their rail, Greenbush.
stomv says
Fingers worked faster than brains.
ruppert says
If you are going to advocate for this boondoggle do a little research.
Yes Commuter Rail is privatized ..(ooohhh we dont like that word here on BMG…is it outsourced?…no we like that word even less)
Commuter rail is run by an outfit called MBCR.
Ask current riders how there doing.
MBTA pays MBCR.
So back to my question: how do you pay to OPERATE this mega line? Cut T ops elsewhere? No lie, you woould have to charge $40. a ticket unless you subsidize ops wich the most debt laden, broke transit system in the USA cant do.
Sorry, but the Guv is involved in a charade here, same way Weld was.
stomv says
You’ve got a world view, and you’re not operating on facts. That’s cool.