The Libel Case - J. Geils Band - Eric Holder - Judge Wolf - Reggie Kennedy

I think Eric Holder needs to explain his remarks... (0.00 / 0)

Americans are not cowards. This sounds like an amazing generalization from a man who will go out and try to preach to people NOT TO GENERALIZE (like I do).

The only thing I can agree with Mr Holder on is many inquisitive discussions on race go nowhere since people don't want to talk about it. I have tried on manay occasions to talk about race but end up being calledd a racist. It's no wonder that many white people don' discuss race since there a good chance you will be called a racist. And while many Americans will forgive illegal drugs (Robert Downing and many others), Paying for sex (Barney Frank and a list too long to repeat), Drunk and disorderly (Teddy and another long list), Tax Evasion (Yup, long list)... the charge of racism will stick forever (well maybe Robert Byrd ducked the bullet).

We need open discussion about race in America but without Ad Hom attacks for people believing in a different opinion than yours. Obama talked about black men doing a better jobs of fathering their kids beyond just procreating. If a white guy had said anything like this, he would be hoisted with his own petard. That's a small example of how race needs to be discussed but will not be honestly discussed due to repercussions.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Fri Feb 20, 2009 at 18:01:15 PM CST

You make a reasonable point, JohnD (6.00 / 1)

except for that baloney about how you are wrongfully branded a racist for "merely" discussing race. You exposed yourself rather nicely a few months back in December with your post "So Proud To Be OFD", so spare us the victim dance.  One of the things you have railed against (I do also)is people who defend their own indefensible behavior by falsely claiming to be victims of prejudice. You just gave us a great example of it.

I believe that none of us are completely free of prejudice.  I just think we have a duty to recognize it when it bubbles to the surface, and fight to overcome it.

And once again I feel guilty about being drawn in by BMG's currently reigning Master Baiter.  I reviewed the number of responses to your posts and I gotta believe you take the prize. I guess it's sort of like talk radio.  It's not about the quality of the discussion, it's about the number of people tuning in.  

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by: johnmurphylaw @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 02:17:13 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank you counselor (or is your name murphylaw?). (0.00 / 0)

Sorry if I exposed myself, it's an old habit. You of course are a great example of someone who shuts down racial discussions and are a big part of the problem. You want things to go away on their own and avoid any yucky discussions. You aren't alone. You can call me whatever you want and think however you want of me, free world. The fact is there are many issues which separate the races of America, maybe they will be here forever. But I do know they won't go away by themselves.

Thanks also for reading my posts, was it fun?

I also think my example of Obama talking tough about issues in the black community, specifically about single parents and black men fathering children at incredible rates and then walking out of their lives was very pertinent. That is an issue and it is a racial issue. But... if people like me (screaming racist that I am) tried to mention this fact I would be blown away by cowards who would attack me for even mentioning it. You, and any other coward who tables discussions like this bare the blame for many of these issues continuing to dwell below the surface of our society.

You want to attack me, then go ahead. But I will keep asking questions like "why have we had a huge surge in violence at high school basketball games in predominantly black cities/ neighborhoods?" Why do we need metal detectors at those same basketball games? Are these violent incidents (shootings, stabbings, brawls) happening in white neighborhoods? You say I am a "baiter" by asking these types of questions but why can't they be valid questions?

Maybe people like you need to understand that people like me view these events through a lens, my lens. And I need answers to these questions for me to think differently. You want to call them red herrings, then go ahead. I find them central to the issue. If Barack Obama were sitting across the table from me and I asked him those questions I'll bet he would agree with me completely and say these types of violent problems in the black community have to stop. I don't think he would slap me in the head and say "you racists pig, how can you ask such a question".

But you have an opinion of me which will never change. I could donate $1,000,000 to black charities and have my daughter marry a black guy and you would still call me a bigot because I've asked questions that you don't like or have an opinion which is different.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 09:57:08 AM CST

[ Parent ]

John D is a Master Baiter!? (3.00 / 1)

Well, in any event John does keep the discussions lively on this blog.  What's wrong with diverse points of view?  Plus, what he says about being called a racist is true;  unfortunately most of the people doing such name calling are white liberals who are on their own guilt trips. (just my opinion).

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by: Edgarthearmenian @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 13:46:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sort of like talk radio? (0.00 / 0)

No, exactly like talk radio.

Same rules of relevance, discourse, substantiation, rhetoric, and evidence.

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by: KBusch @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 16:36:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

People don't have candid discussions about race (4.50 / 2)

because it gets you called racist.  I had a legit, unabashed candid discussion in class about race in high school and the whole class called me racist and refused to discuss anything I said on the merits because the merits scared them.  Since then, it's one of the few issues where I won't say exactly what is on my mind.  I don't need anyone else calling me racist because they are too insecure to admit hard facts.  

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by: JoeTS @ Fri Feb 20, 2009 at 21:08:25 PM CST

Joe, that was high school (6.00 / 1)

I think that is all that needs to be said.

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 00:09:29 AM CST

[ Parent ]

The discussion was on reparations for slavery (0.00 / 0)

and I said "why should the government pay black people because we enslaved their ancestors?  If we didn't, then most of the black people wouldn't be here.  They'd be back in the bush dying of aids or getting killed in some civil war or basically wishing more than anything they were in America.  If America is so bad that they need to get paid to live here, then we should deport them."

Granted, it wasn't as eloquent as it could have been, I still think it's true.  

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by: JoeTS @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 00:36:34 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Actually, only mostly true (0.00 / 0)

I know more about Africa then I did 6 or 7 years ago, so it's hyperbole to say all the blacks would be back there had there been no slavery and everyone would be miserable, but I stand behind the general concept I stated.

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by: JoeTS @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 00:42:12 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sounds like you've come a long way (0.00 / 0)

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by: johnmurphylaw @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 02:21:36 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Still not tackling the merits of my argument against slavery reparations. (3.50 / 2)

Sounds like you have too.

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by: JoeTS @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 09:57:19 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Have you ever been to Africa? (0.00 / 0)

Just curious.

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 16:08:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No, But (0.00 / 0)

I have seen Daktari, many Tarzan flicks, Out of Africa, Hotel Rwanda, Blood Diamond, Breaker Morant, Last King of Scotland, The African Queen, Roots, Zulu, Shaka Zulu, Casablanca and King Solomon's Mines.  

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by: RegularJoe @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 09:44:40 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I think I agree (4.50 / 2)

"Dialog" in this context means some people talk about why they're right, some others listen, and maybe admit how wrong they are.  If the listeners talk about anything else, they're racist.  If they don't play, they're racist.  It's a lose-lose proposition, and it is no wonder that most people make the rational decision to simply not play.

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by: CentralMassDad @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 09:08:11 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks for having the guts to speak up. (4.50 / 2)

This is exactly what I am talking about. I do disagree with Bob when he says "that was high school". Bullshit. If you have an opinion which is not 100% in line with contemporary racial discussions, you will be a pariah. You will lose promotions, maybe get fired and be a social outcast. This exists today in schools, colleges, work environments and social circles. This exists today on BMG. I'm not talking about outright racists with tattoos... but just someone that speaks differently or maybe has deep rooted opinions against reparations to generations of former slaves... It's a big gamble to take this plunge and most will act like JosTS and simply stay quiet for the sake of safety... which fixes nothing.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 10:04:42 AM CST

[ Parent ]

reparations seems not the best example (0.00 / 0)

I don't think African-Americans are even unanimous on this question.

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by: Christopher @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 10:08:43 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sorry, Christopher, it was just an example. (0.00 / 0)

I'm simply saying when someone speaks up against an sensitive racial issue with honest opinions, they are taking a big risk and often don't say anything. I'm a great example. I have very strong feelings about certain things but I don't share those feelings with many people (other than this blog) because the risks are too high. This transcends race and includes politics, religion...

It's too bad people can't talk about these things without getting labeled or without the risk being too high and rendering silence.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 10:37:15 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I agree that reparations is probably not a good example (0.00 / 0)

How about the connection between race and incarceration rate or crime or being a single parent?  I'm not ignorant to think that the poverty level and the years of systematic discrimination don't play a huge role, but oftentimes I see it becoming a free pass.  When men like Bill Cosby step forward and tell his fellow blacks what they were doing was wrong, he became the pariah too.  Anyone remember Jesse Jackson saying he wanted to cut Barack's nuts off?  Same deal.  

It gets to the point where I stop caring.  If the "leaders" of the black community are going to chastise people telling young, black men to start fathering their children, then I'm going to stop caring about the black community, because it obviously doesn't care about itself.  

That's how I honestly feel.  You can go ahead and call me racist now.

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by: JoeTS @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 11:04:18 AM CST

[ Parent ]

You racist! (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 18:23:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

JohnD, I don't think you understand what I mean (5.50 / 2)

I welcome discussions about race. I've been involved in a couple of relatively high profile ones, on both sides. Ten years ago I fought against the elimination of a popular outdoor basketball court when Worcester received $500,000.00 in Federal Block Grant money to renovate a large city park. The plans called for baseball fields, football fields, etc. but certain forces, neighborhood and otherwise, wanted to eliminate the very popular basketball court. It was frustrating because the POOREST kids (who were predominantly black) used the court more than anything else and the reason WHY the city received the grant money was because it was a POOR neighborhood. I think race played a large role in that. Some people who I thought were bigots screamed bloody murder when the issue was raised, but it had to be.

Before that I was on the board of a very popular neighborhood center (leadership almost all black) that had woefully mismanaged millions of dollars and we had to close it down.  I was accused of racism by many. That was an example of people raising it as a smokescreen.  

I am proud of my involvement in both efforts, which were successful, and I mention them only to illustrate that I may not be who you think I am. I have discussions about race all the time. I'm just calling you out for what your words reveal.

In answer to your earlier question, you can give millions to minorities and let them marry into your family (thank you for that one) but you're probably still going to be a racist.

I just hate to hear guys like you whine about the negative feedback you get while hiding behind the illusion that you're merely "trying to engage in an open dialogue".  Open? My eye. Once again, your words have exposed you. Own it.

 

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by: johnmurphylaw @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 20:49:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What do our words reveal? hmm? (6.00 / 1)

Basically, all you did was a few paragraphs of stuff you've done and then a p.s. you're racist.  

You never actually said anything about what John and I are talking about, or you did and it just wasn't clear to me.

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by: JoeTS @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 21:54:43 PM CST

[ Parent ]

how to have a productive race discussion (6.00 / 1)

In this post, it seems like the "open discussion" has consisted largely of venting about the shortcomings of black culture and black demands, debating who's a racist and complaining about race discussions themselves. That's not uncommon for this topic and is exactly why we are cowards about engaging in it. While posters honestly express their anger and frustrations, this is not the kind of frank discussion I think Eric Holder had in mind. Complicated and highly sensitive, productive race discussion requires a different and deliberate format which I discuss in this new post

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by: hubspoke @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 08:47:41 AM CST

[ Parent ]

My whining is more about people not answering than it is about the name calling. (3.00 / 3)

Do you really think that I give a flying fuck what you think of me, really. I don't care what you call me. Being a lawyer I'm sure your thick skinned about "ambulance chasing" remarks as well. That fact is the annoying part of the ad hom attacks against me is people do this in lieu of answering my questions, just like you have done. As for your experiences in Worcester, good for you. Glad you are giving back to the community in pro bona work (I assume it was). Although, as you pointed out regarding my $1,000,000 it doesn't prove anything about you.

I personally would fight tooth and nail against a basketball court near my house/business as well, even in a white neighborhood. Although I guess it would be hard for the advocates to scream racism in that example and they would have to find another "personal attack method" to demonize any opposition.

And I'll repeat, guys like you are doing nothing to fight racism and are adding to the fire. There are many aspects to solving problems. They include hearing the other sides, not marginalizing the other parties' concerns, being open to alternative ideas and not burying our heads in the sand. People like me do get hung up on minor issues sometimes and I think it's the responsibility of the other side to address them. Such as The Stimulus package coming out of the House had way to much SHIT in it and it gave some opponents easy targets to attack. If the Obama was a little smarter he would have insisted the Bill come out clean as a whistle in order to diminish the opposition. Race relations is a long difficult problem in America and I believe there are aspects to the black culture which many white Americans don't like. I think it will be difficult to solve our problems until we can "diminish" some of these issues and start getting to the core problems. I say this because I am guilty of getting hung upon these things.

I have black friends believe it or not. They are professionals, they work hard, are educated and living the American dream. Some are from Dorchester who made it out while others are from other states and others from foreign countries. They are great people and I enjoy their company. But their are aspects of black culture such as the single parents, violence, ebonics, "axing questions" and the constant hand out which infuriate me. Does this make me a racist? I think we throw the term racist and racism around to freely. And big fucking deal if I ask questions which you or others don't like. I worked with an American who grew up in Argentina. We were talking about the Spanish TV shows one day and I mentioned how even with the TV muted you can tell when you pass a Spanish station because the woman are all dressed so trashy, tight pants, boobs hanging out... and I asked why they were all like that. He agreed with me and couldn't explain it as well. IMO, I wasn't making any racist remark by asking the question, I was just observing something and had a curiosity and hoped he would actually have insight. I still don't know the answer.

It's tough to have a fruitful discussion if you don't want to have all parties at the table.  

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 09:49:15 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Perhaps (4.50 / 2)

With more time, you might have written a shorter and more thoughtful response.

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by: KBusch @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 16:31:59 PM CST

[ Parent ]

C'mon KBusch... (5.00 / 1)

I'm trying. I get flustered sometimes and use inappropriate language but I've been trying.  And as much as you guys dismiss me as just another bigot, I really am trying to confront this whole thing.

And as I said concerning JoeTS's comments... it's a big gamble/risk being honest about how you feel about race or questions you may have. People will often turn on you like a dog and it is a monkey you will never get off your back. So big deal if there are things about people AND cultures that I don't like. Are you telling me that everyone out there loves everything about all cultures? I know I have issues about race and I have been trying to rationalize them. My "latest" conclusion is I am not a racist but I am someone who hates dislikes many things about black culture. Now, I wrote last week about my golf trip to Florida and stated how much I loathed the native white trash Florida locals with their mullets and gutter mouth, alcoholic, imbecilic behavior... Does this mean I hate all white people? No, I just disliked the local culture down there.

Years ago I took a class on Gender since I wanted to try to understand women more. There were/is things about women that I can't stand, drives me wild. I have 2 daughters, a wife, a Mother, two sisters... and I love women. But it doesn't mean that I don't detest some aspects (social) of the female gender. The good news is the class was all female and I was 1 of 2 men. We had some heated discussions about gender pay, sexism, glass ceilings, society norms, harassment... and I learned a ton. I'm looking for the same concerning race.

I haven't got there yet with race on this site but I am hoping that someday there will be an open, honest and frank discussion about race. But the problem is people will have to be ready to hear things they may not like or agree with.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 20:08:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Haste (6.00 / 3)

Honesty does not require haste. Honesty is not a synonym for vomiting up whatever odd bits happen to be churning in your gut. I'm happy to take you seriously when you begin to take your own ideas seriously and not before.

1. Your first paragraph is chock full of unnecessary personal, it's-all-about-me defensiveness. The comments about lawyers border on precisely the sort of ad hominem, personal attacks we are asked to avoid in the Rules of the Road. This paragraph only makes you sound emotional and loosely wound. Not exactly an invitation into being taken seriously.
2. The second paragraph, about basketball courts, just seems weird. Are your always being demonized? Always? Very sad.
3. You really haven't thought about your third paragraph. Your logic runs a bit like this:  "I'm petty and irrational. It's your job to fix that." Do you really want to go there? Johnmurphylaw is responsible for your irrationality? Are you the perpetual child, others parents?
4. Why are you bringing up the Stimulus bill? To weaken your own argument with distractions?
5. Why do you still have beliefs about "black culture" and "white culture" and "white preferences"? Why don't you have statistics yet? How long are you going to write long, long, long, long comments about race without even a fact? Are you showing off your ignorance or your complacency? Which is it?
6. You whine, again: "But their are aspects of black culture such as the single parents, violence, ebonics, 'axing questions' and the constant hand out which infuriate me." Why haven't you thought about these things any more deeply?
7. Your conclusion is ironic: "It's tough to have a fruitful discussion if you don't want to have all parties at the table." The trouble is that you are invited to the table but you're happy not knowing what you're talking about. You bring nothing to the table. Your first reaction is your last reaction. There's another name for that, JohnD: prejudice.

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by: KBusch @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 21:42:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Fine, fine, fine... (0.00 / 0)

I've stated before that I do have "some" human qualities and I guess reacting is one of them. The reacting part is visceral and even the "preview" button doesn't prevent me from writing and then thinking.

1. Like I said sometimes I get emotional. The "lawyer" comment was meant to illustrate people having "think skin" not a common lawyer joke. My oldest daughter will graduate from law school next year so there is no inherent hatred for lawyer in me (although I do greatly dislike many things lawyers do). But... agreed, unnecessary.

2. I was trying to make a point that because someone may object to having a basketball court (noisy, busy, common location for fight, drinking, late night activities..) built near their home doesn't automatically make them a bigot.

3. I don't claim to be an expert in presenting my logic. I was simply trying to say that often times people have serious issues (like divorce) and maybe in trying to settle a divorce, there might be some smaller issues which cause one party to say "until you stop stalking me we can't sit down and civilly discuss the divorce agreement". This might also be a bad example but I was trying to say before you discuss the true issues behind race, you need to air the things that bother you and yes, discuss them. But I will try to understand what even I mean by this a little better.

4. I brought up the Stimulus Bill as an example of an issue which required serious discussion of the "core" issue but because it had so many window dressing issues it gave opponents a lot to argue about. Sort of like GM coming to Congress for bailout money but flying there in Corporate jets. In the end, it may have had very little financial effect on their argument but it just didn't pass the smell test. Again, I'll try to word this better in the future.

5. Got it. I'll read large amounts of info on this before I comment on it again. I'm sure you and others will still attack the numbers but you're right about me just spewing thoughts with no backing facts (legless). I watched Basic Black on WGBH this weekend and Hiawatha Bray from the Boston Globe was on and spoke about blacks and the internet. I have also started ready articles from the Pew Research Center which also were very interesting. Do you recommend this as a legitimate site for me to peruse?

6. How much deeper do I have to think? Example "axing a question"... this bugs me. Period. School systems are equal for everyone (blacks and whites), especially in Boston. Smae English is taught to everyone. The real stab for me is when adults use this type of vernacular especially "black celebrities". It it really that hard to say "ask". How do you want me to think more deeply of this? Seriously, I will if you tell me how. Gov Patrick doesn't say it, President Obama doesn't, my black friends don't and I haven't heard poor white people say it. It bugs you when people use "it's" improperly so why can't it bug me when people say "axe a question"?

7. I bring as much to the table an many others. Many of the people arguing against me do not spout stats and references. Now, I will give you that having  more data to support my arguments will go further but my basic "feeling" is still that people don't want this "race" discussion. Many people want to stick their heads in the sand and hope this goes away. Prejudice... Maybe I do suffer from prejudice, although it is defined as a preconceived opinion not based on reason or actual experience. Growing up in Dorchester gave me plenty of "actual experiences". Do I know every black person, no I don't. Am I any different than anyone else, maybe even you? Do you dislike Republicans? Conservatives? Neo-conservatives? Racists? Do you know all of them? How can we not be this way, even just a little?

Summary, message heard and understood. I'll try not to write then think, but I can't promise anything.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 09:48:22 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Too many typos (0.00 / 0)

You wrote this in haste too. I'm not reading it to the end. Why should I bother, if you don't?

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by: KBusch @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 09:53:59 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Where? Just reread and still don't see any. (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 09:58:57 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I'm busy (0.00 / 0)

http://baselinescenario.com/fi...

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by: KBusch @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 10:22:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yoo are Sew Write!! (6.00 / 2)

Their is know place four tipoes and misspellings on are bloug.

Ernie Boch, III is not related to Ernie Boch, Jr. however he does hope to be in his will.

Justice for Tookie

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by: EB3 @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 10:24:33 AM CST

[ Parent ]

exaclty what do we mean by "dialogue"? (0.00 / 0)

3. ...before you discuss the true issues behind race, you need to air the things that bother you and yes, discuss them.

JohnD, this highlights a possible difference in how people conceive of discussions about race. So I'd like to go down this road a bit with you and others.

As I see it, the goals of dialogues on race in a diverse society like ours are to break down longstanding barriers and build better interpersonal and intergroup relationships. This leads to a better local community and a better society. We create "social capital" across racial and ethnic lines. Organized, facilitated dialogues can do this by helping participants:
· open up lines of honest but respectful communication
· increase understanding of the experiences and views of others
· recognize and reduce harmful, inaccurate stereotypes we have of each other
· build trust, better relationships and, with luck, some new personal friendships with people of other racial and ethnic backgrounds.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your reference above to the "true issues behind race" implies that you're fairly sure you already know what they are. If so, why would you bother to engage in dialogue? To be sure, people come to a dialogue with opinions, but the aim is to learn about the issues behind race through sharing one's personal experiences, views and feelings with the group and more so, through listening to those of other participants. Here's where one can "air the things that bother you," as you say.

There are many in-person discussion formats of various stripes: dialogues, debates, public forums, symposia, town hall meetings, workshops, trainings, panel discussions, etc. The names of these formats are used far too loosely. When I talk about a facilitated dialogue, as I've said elsewhere, I mean one that has trained facilitators, a stated purpose, a session plan of some kind and group ground rules. It is a venue for participants to listen, share and learn, keep an open-mind, be willing to test our assumptions and "try on some other people's points of view" to see how they feel.

Please let me know if I have misinterpreted what you're thinking about "race dialogue." How does what I described square with what you think the format of a good race discussion should be?

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by: hubspoke @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:22:40 AM CST

[ Parent ]

We're killing the right margin so I'll jump left and reply. (0.00 / 0)

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 15:03:10 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This reply is to hubspoke (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for taking some time to respond to my email.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your reference above to the "true issues behind race" implies that you're fairly sure you already know what they are.

No, sorry. If I knew I would skip the outer stuff and address the core issues. My point was like a patient brought to the ER with serious heart problems but is covered with bees. First you get the bees off the patient and then figure out what's wrong with his heart. I don't know why black people don't like white people or why white people don't like black people. I'm searching for books right now but so far it seems like every author has a bias going into it. Maybe I won't be able to avoid this.

Please don't take this personally but I am not interested an "in-person" dialogue. First, I don't have time and second I don't care enough to go through all that work. Like my extra pounds I carry, wish they were gone but haven't dedicated the work to getting rid of them.

By race dialogue, I was commenting on Eric Holder's remark about Americans being cowards. Since I don't know exactly what he meant, I was wondering if he was referring to the fact that Americans are afraid to discuss race. My impressions are we are afraid because if we tell the truth about how we feel, we risk being branded as a racist. I also feel that people will attack you for this and not even bother listening to your thoughts. So, we end up just not talking about it but we vote, spend, contribute, live, work and conduct our lives in a manner which allows us to "live through" these inner feelings (if that makes sense).

I have lots of questions about race and many issues regarding race which a dialogue could help. While I grew up in Dorchester, I now am a typical American living in a suburb of 18,000 people with 3 black families. The 13% black minority is such a misnomer of the true demographics. Prior to this town I lived in another 18,000 suburb 15 miles north of Boston with 2 or 3 black families in it. Race really doesn't effect me. If the race issues we have today were never solved, my life would not change.

Am I a racist... I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I think we throw the "racist" remark around for too easily. I hate rap music, hate it. Does it make me a racist. I hate it when Americans don't speak english properly and I'm not talking about proper sentence structure... just plain speaking. Does that make me a racist. These are not exclusively black issues, but they are predominately black cultural issues. I do not hate black people. I do not think they are stupid and in fact met a black Medicinal Chemist last week who probably has forgotten more than I will ever know. I would look at a white and a black job applicant as equals and wouldn't hesitate to hire the more qualified person but I might not if the black person "axed" me a question. Nor would I hire the white person if asked if he could use the "God damn" men's room.

Sorry to repeat myself but I asked someone earlier this... BMG is a Democratic blogging site so do people here dislike Bush supporters, dislike neo-conservatives, right-wing Republicans? Are they disliking entire groups of people based on their prejudiced feelings?

Maybe I am a lost cause for you (or anyone else here) but I have the feeling talking to my old friends in Dorchester (who are outright racists) and many suburban friends that I represent the average white guy in America. We believe in 100% equality but there are things which we don't like. And like me, if you ask them questions about race they will lie because the risk is too big to tell the truth. So we can talk about yucky things or just keep lying... and being cowards.

Baker/Tisei in 2010... Charlie Baker on why people "have been" leaving MA, "It's not the weather here, it's the climate"

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by: JohnD @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 15:44:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

"Exists today on BMG" (6.00 / 1)

What are you talking about? Say whatever you want, as long as you follow the rules and especially avoid personal attacks.

As to Joe, my point was that people who can't move on from high school have deep emotional issues that are far beyond the scope of current discussion.

His subsequent comments indicated progress, in my opinion, because they advanced the discussion to his current views on reparations, which is an interesting topic.

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Sun Feb 22, 2009 at 16:11:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

J. Geils Band (6.00 / 3)

Is awesome. It is an outrage and a horror that they are not in the RRHoF.

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Sat Feb 21, 2009 at 00:11:40 AM CST

Racist. (0.00 / 0)

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by: eury13 @ Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 13:41:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]