Tonight's Debate

I watched the debate (4.00 / 1)

and came to much the same conclusions. I'd add some more points to this fine account:

- Gabrieli did not seem to have much other than his stem cell message (even his job growth was all stem cell, and one reporter pointed out that small biotech firms are hardly massive job creators.)

- Reilly struck me as unprepared. I don't think he had any substantive answers and went more with vapid talking points than any sort of heartfelt policy.

- Deval hammered the hell out of Romney, but not in an awkward manner (Gabrieli's delivery was slightly off on the Romney-bashing, and Reilly's was never on.) Deval was heartfelt and wide-ranging and came off as supremely prepared for the whole host of questions. Although you'll notice that his traditionally liberal message was quite muted.

- And then there was Christy, who was a laugh a minute. He stumbled out of the closing with a bumbling "Oh, one more sentence, huh," and couldn't get much past taxes will hurt you, they're bad.

In all, the atmosphere was pretty light-hearted, I was surprised at how little Healey-bashing there was (I think Gabrieli and Reilly were the only two to pull the gloves off) and the reporters were excellent. A follow-up question to not let anyone weasel out of a question with a BS answer? who ever heard of such a thing in a proper debate??

Dan Payne had a fine piece in the Globe today, with a snarky representation of all the candidate: "Professor" Gabrieli, "Sgt" Reilly, the whole bit. He missed just slightly on Mihos who was more like Ross Perot meets Ed King. I laughed, I was so frightened.

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by: drgonzo @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 21:20:45 PM CDT

Enough with the stem cells Chris! (0.00 / 0)

Back in my college days I think I could have made a drinking game out of taking a shot every time Chris said "stem cells." Almost as bad as Al Gore's "iron-clad lockbox."

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by: ShillelaghLaw @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 07:40:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hey, that's a great idea! (0.00 / 0)

It should liven up the convention considerably!  Who's bringing the brewskis?

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by: David @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 15:05:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Carla Howell (6.00 / 1)

... but not nearly as bad as Carla Howell and her obsession with cutting the income tax.  According to her, that's how we protect the environment, provide health care, make housing affordable, fight crime, and everything else.

I could just see it, if she were in this debate.  Gabrieli would promote funding stem cell research.  Carla Howell would then explain how getting rid of the income tax is the best way to fund stem cell research.

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by: Cos @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 15:42:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Or, as she would say in response to every question, ever: (0.00 / 0)

Small government is beautiful.

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by: afertig @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 15:51:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

(sm) (0.00 / 0)

Small government is beautiful^sm

the "service mark" note was the funniest part... (see 02 campaign site)

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by: alexwill @ Sat May 20, 2006 at 22:41:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Grace Ross (0.00 / 0)

Yep--she was not allowed in because of low poll numbers when the event was planned.  She and supporters asked the debate organizers to recosider the decision, but they refused.  They also suggested that there were many more than 6 candidates who'd taken papers out for the race--I think that the number cited was 13!  Anyone have any idea who else?  Is there a libertarian running?

It's a shame, though--whether one wants to vote for Ross or not, she certainly would have stretched the bounds of the debate.  She certainly did in today's Globe piece on how to stem the exodus of MA residents.

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 21:38:08 PM CDT

there are quite a few (0.00 / 0)

people who have pulled papers to run for governor. I've seen the list, although I don't remember any of the names.

I'm sure if you went to OCPF you could do a campaign donation/committee search and come up with at least a handful more people running for governor.

Honestly, the organizers don't help their cause by blocking out candidates. But then again, who's to say there shouldn't have been all 13 or so gubernatorial candidates. That would have been impossible to coordinate (anynody who's ever tried organizing a political rally knows this.)

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by: drgonzo @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 21:58:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

go by signatures (0.00 / 0)

Just because a lot of people took out papers doesn't mean they all have real campaigns.  So instead of using that as a cop-out, the debate sponsors could have issued conditional invitations: If you've turned in at least 10,000 raw signatures to city & town clerks by the date of the debate, you can be in it.  We don't yet know how many of those signatures are certified, and obviously a candidate who only had 10,000 raw probably isn't going to get on the ballot, but it's a good solid objective test of which ones are the real campaigns.

(The deadline for non-party candidates hasn't actually passed yet, so it's possible Grace Ross still wouldn't have qualified, but it would've at least set a precedent that would get her into the next debate if she does get enough signatures)

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by: Cos @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 23:28:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is there an echo in here? (0.00 / 0)

Afertig, your description is wonderful.

It created a sense of deja vu in me, since I had written similar thoughts about the Agawam debate.

Western Mass has always been a great place for politicians to practice their messages before they go "live" to the part of the state that really matters. Oh, sorry, do I sound bitter? I'm not, I actually love being on the forefront.

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by: Michael Forbes Wilcox @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 22:13:32 PM CDT

Grace Ross (0.00 / 0)

First, those are my thoughts exactly on the debate.

About Grace Ross. . . I'm a big Deval Supporter and a Deval delegate, but I was upset that the organizers excluded Ross from the debate. She was the only announced candidate that was excluded.

Her campaign asked supporters to write letters to the Globe, one of the debate's co-sponsors. In response to the letters, the Globe decided to publish this profile or her and her candidacy, and the ombudsman wrote this sympathetic response. The organizers claimed that she didn't have sufficient "name recognition", the familiar circular reasoning that keeps non-millionaire independent candidates from having a chance.

So yeah, I think she deserves a spot in the debates, especially one this early, even though I'm not supporting her.

Somerville for Instant Runoff Voting

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by: Greg @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 22:18:08 PM CDT

Does anyone know... (0.00 / 0)

If there's any way to see a webcast/transcript/recording of the debate? I'm away at school for a while longer, so I missed this one. Thanks.

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by: Patrick Hart @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 22:43:36 PM CDT

it's available (0.00 / 0)

at NECN's website.

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by: David @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 23:00:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks (0.00 / 0)

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by: Patrick Hart @ Sat May 20, 2006 at 12:35:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Debate accounts (0.00 / 0)

Check out the Harvard College Dems liveblog of the debate here.  We have links to other resources on that page as well.

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by: rwinikates @ Thu May 18, 2006 at 22:57:59 PM CDT

Cool -- great resource! (0.00 / 0)

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by: Patrick Hart @ Sat May 20, 2006 at 12:37:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My impressions (4.00 / 1)

I liked the format of the debate. Too many times a debate moderator will let squishy answers slide. I liked how the candidates were pressed harder.

I got the impression that Reilly was solely focused on framing himself as a candidate. The substance of his answers didn't seem as important to him as the frame he put around them -- "fighting", "go after [insert word here]", "taxes too high". Interesting strategy for an election. When asked about economic development he talked about a company that he fought so that it didn't close [if I remember that right].

Christy Mihos' answers didn't make a lot of sense to me. He couldn't explain the outrage that people are going to feel when they buy a house and they're going to be paying 4 times the taxes as the guy in the bigger house next door. His main message was that he was going to cut a lot of taxes for people. That might resonate with voters, but if implemented I think it will make this state a lot worse and unappealing.

I just don't buy the concept that people are moving because their taxes are too high. They're moving because they can't find jobs that are commensurate with their cost of living, caused mostly by housing. They're moving because the only options available to them are insanely priced houses or ridiculously long commutes to cheaper housing. They're moving because the job opportunities here are decreasing.

Gabrielli and Patrick spoke inteligently on the issues, but there was less pushing of an underlying message like Reilly or Mihos. I like their positions a lot, but I'm worried that the singular message approach is going to appeal to voters more, especially when that approach is to basically give people more money.

I'm a little disappointed that both Patrick and Gabrielli focused exclusively on "high tech" jobs without even tipping their hats to the fact that we have an awful lot of people in this state who will never be qualified for one. I think that is a failure of both this state and the country -- we need middle-class jobs for non-college graduates too, not everyone is equipped to be a rocket scientist.

Both Gabrielli and Patrick acknowledged that raising the minimum wage isn't going to put people into the middle class, but they jumped to the, in my opinion, flawed conclusion that those people need to go to college.

I think that another missed policy point would be to invest resources into communities that are designed for density and commerce. There was a lot of talk about simplifying the design process, allowing more development. But there are plenty of depressed urban areas that crave both development of housing (provided that it isn't designed for nonworking poor) and industry. Those areas are already connected to highways and rail lines. Why not focus there instead of reducing the red tape to develop in Dover? I'm probably biased because I live in Springfield, but it always amazes me when the state offers carrots to communities to build dense housing but then abandons Springfield when that housing is responsible for social problems. No wonder no other communities are taking that carrot.

I think that Kerry Healey is going to have a tough time with these challengers. They hit her pretty good, and the resounding message was "we're going in the wrong direction, people are leaving and everyone's property taxes are going through the roof." I'm sure that Healey will counter with "we had a budget deficit four years ago, now we have a surplus". But jobs is probably the key -- we're not creating them, and a lot of people are leaving because of this.

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by: NoPolitician @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 08:51:51 AM CDT

Puzzling globe reporting... (0.00 / 0)

I'm intrigued by something written in the Globe:

Reilly moved to the conservative edges of the Democratic Party by supporting a tax rollback; Gabrieli boasted that he had created jobs as a venture capitalist; and Patrick made a pitch to liberals with his denunciation of Governor Mitt Romney's lack of funding for programs for poor people.

The transcript of the debate can be found at both the Globe and on a Globe blog. Can someone show me where Patrick talks about funding programs for poor people?

The only time that Patrick uttered the word "fund" is here, in response to the taxes question:

PATRICK: Well, thanks for the question. The question has usually come in the context of the income tax, and what I've said is that I think at 5.3%, where it is right now, that's what we need and need to live within in order to restore local aid, and to begin to fund so many of the services people say they want which have been so drastically cut. There are other techniques. The issue of the cigarette or sin taxes was one of the ways that was proposed when the legislature was first thinking about how to fund healthcare , something we still don't know the total cost of. The question of gas tax, for example, and whether we can cut that, even if it's legal. I mean, my issue is how we get past gimmicks as a way to govern, and how we get to the root causes of some of the challenges we're facing and how we fund them in ways that are transparent and efficient.

He never uttered the word "poor" except to describe his background, and he never even said the word "program".

So where did that come from? Was there a debate that I missed, or is the Globe doing some lazy reporting here?

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by: NoPolitician @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 09:17:09 AM CDT

Funding (0.00 / 0)

Here's probably what they're talking about:

I would just add that I do think it's a good thing that the governor was able to find the compassion and the resources to shelter, feed, and clothe evacuees from New Orleans. That's a good thing. But it is shocking that he has been unwilling and unable to find the compassion and the resources to shelter, feed and clothe people who are flat on their backs right here in Massachusetts, day after day, year after year. And that is something that I intend to turn around when I'm governor.

Not really the crux of his message during the debate, but enough for Frank Phillips to call him a crazy liberal.

.08 Acres
.0000016% of Massachusetts Political Commentary

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by: sco @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 09:24:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Missed that... (0.00 / 0)

Thanks, I listened to the debate and completely missed that one. It was such a minor point, the Globe did a disservice characterizing Patrick's performance with that one line.

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by: NoPolitician @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 09:29:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

the Globe is referring to (0.00 / 0)

the part in the debate where Patrick praised Romney's aid to Katrina victims, and aksed why Romney couldn't do the same for the poor people of Massachusetts. He never explicitly said "poor" or "fund" but it's understood that's what he would do.

I'd like it if someone would fund some more social spending programs, wouldn't you?

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by: drgonzo @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 09:26:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Mihos (0.00 / 0)

I don't think Mihos came off well as a candidate, but he was pushing the same message that Bostonshepard was yesterday on the economic growth thread - that is that major corporations aren't going to be lead into Massachusetts through marketing, but through acutal financial incentives and "improved business climate" (however you choose to define that).  There is probably something to that, I just don't think lowering the income tax by .3% is going to be the thing that puts us over the top.

So, if you're a republican, you liked the message.  I'm not sure how they feel about the messanger.

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by: Ed Prisby @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 09:36:02 AM CDT

Globe Quotes this post! (0.00 / 0)

Hah! The Globe this morning quoted this very post!

The local blogging community also stayed in touch. "I've never seen a debate with more substance than this -- the moderator forced people to tackle the issues and there was ample follow-up," said one post on Blue Mass. Group, a Democratic-leaning blog.

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by: afertig @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 11:59:45 AM CDT

Congrats! :) (0.00 / 0)

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by: David @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 15:10:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Unemployment (0.00 / 0)

If anyone has a minute, I would be very appreciative if someone would explain how it is that unemployment mostly affects those outside the 617 area code.

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by: PerfectHandle @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 12:39:57 PM CDT

I think it's more accurate to say (0.00 / 0)

Unemployment rates are higher outside Boston, and the jobs that are being created tend to cluster in Boston.  Which is why Patrick (I think it was him) made that comment about needed a quick trainline from New Bedford to Boston, so people can buy cheaper homes outside Boston and commute into town for work.

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by: joeltpatterson @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 19:27:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I miss Barbara Johnson (0.00 / 0)

I miss Barbara "Legalize pot and tax it!" Johnson or my other favorite "I am the only mother in the race and that makes me the most qualified", all priceless.

Luckily it seems that Christy seems to be filling in that void.

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by: jconway @ Fri May 19, 2006 at 21:24:54 PM CDT