Primary day OPEN THREAD!

from the Sonia Chang-Diaz office (6.00 / 2)

I've been here an hour and a half and already it feels like half a day.  But now the volunteers are out and we get a brief lull, I hope...

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by: Cos @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:11:49 AM CDT

P.S. Diebold (6.00 / 1)

See my crosspost from this morning about Galvin considering Diebold for Massachusetts and watch the Diebold vote-stealing video Smart Mass posted yesterday

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by: Cos @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:20:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

First anecdotal turnout report (1 precinct in 1 town) (6.00 / 1)

Got a call from someone who votes early in Framingham, who said turnout appeared "moderate" (not heavy, not light). I've got no idea what turnout level means for the various candidates, I'm not sure I buy the conventional wisdom that a heavier turnout favors Gabrieli.

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by: oceandreams @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:46:46 AM CDT

Could be tighter than polls suggest (6.00 / 2)

Just spoke with someone senior in the Patrick campaign, they are concerned about supporters' over-confidence and think the finish could be close...

Let's get out the vote today!!!

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by: Benny @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:10:45 AM CDT

From 6th Worcester... (6.00 / 1)

I'm running GOTV for Patrick Driscoll in the most exciting state rep race you've never heard of. 5-way Democratic primary for Mark Carron's seat (he's retiring). In this low turnout district it's anyone's game and anyone's guess as to how it'll turn out. We have our organization in place, though.

More to come as the day progresses.

the blue dog may howl at midnight, but we can't assume it knows what time it is.

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by: eury13 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:15:03 AM CDT

Things relatively (6.00 / 1)

quiet in my little precinct (Hudson).

FYI, That Murry/Silbert vote was the toughest...

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by: Smart Mass @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:32:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fairly quiet. . .but a good omen! (5.33 / 3)

My precinct seemed quiet, which surprised me a little, since it is urban and liberal. 

As of 7:15, I was voter number "11."  So what?  Well, eleven is my lucky number!  Ahh, the little joys in life. . .

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by: MaverickDem @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:43:54 AM CDT

p.s. (6.00 / 3)

No truth to the rumor that I made a little old lady vote in front of me so that I could get my coveted number! ;)

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by: MaverickDem @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:51:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No way. 11 is my lucky number (0.00 / 0)

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by: afertig @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:10:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No way. 11 is my lucky number (0.00 / 0)

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by: afertig @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:10:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A voter came in (6.00 / 2)

A voter just called us after he went to vote, asking if we had any signs (of course we do) and just came in to get it and go set it up.  I think we've got some really motivated voters today.

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by: Cos @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:49:17 AM CDT

Steady at 7 AM (6.00 / 2)

After I get out of school, I'll be heading home to hold signs outside my precinct, and I'll be collecting vote totals when the precinct closes.  Our school is a polling place today, and this morning at 7 AM the traffic coming into the school lot was steady.  This is prime Murray territory with huge Patrick support.  Neither Reilly nor Gabrieli had anyone outside holding a sign.  Interesting. 
 

 

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by: lightiris @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:50:09 AM CDT

Worcester (6.00 / 3)

Turnout is looking ok this morning, but Melissa Murgo needs all the help she can get. The race between her and anti-choice incumbent John Fresolo is going to be very, very close. If you live in 16th Worcester, please get out and vote for Murgo!

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by: choiceinmass @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:02:21 AM CDT

Melissa Murgo, John Fresolo (0.00 / 0)

See my Melissa Murgo post from yesterday.  Let's get another ethically challenged, scandal-ridden incumbent (John Fresolo) out of the state house.

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by: Cos @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:14:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I second that!! (0.00 / 0)

Absolutely - Fresolo has to go, and Melissa is a GREAT candidate. If you live in the 16th Worcester - or know anyone who does - get to the polls and support Melissa.

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by: politicaljunkie @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:18:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't like the term antichoice (0.00 / 0)

I also don't like the term proabortion.

But any way I was voter 81 at precinct 6-1 in Waltham

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by: Joe Viz @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:03:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Worcester Ward 10 Precinct 2 (6.00 / 1)

Just came back from the polling place where I'm doing standout today. Morning traffic was moderate, lots of waves and thumbs-up for my sign...My stick has Patrick and Murray today, so I don't know if it was one or both that people approved of.

Free your mind, and your ass will follow.

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by: rollbiz @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:12:26 AM CDT

Melrose (0.00 / 0)

I went a voted this morning at 7:15. There was about 6 or 8 other people there at the time I was and looking a the ballot box after putting my vote in the ballot box had already recorded 25 votes and my precinct is not very big.

The winner of this race is going to be the one who actually gets people out to vote. That is why all polls are junk. Since they use like voters or registers voters.

That is why do not be surprised if Patrick loses.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:16:18 AM CDT

And a big "huh?" to you... (0.00 / 0)

You must have missed the part where Patrick has THE best GOTV campaign in the race?

Left in Lowell: cuz why read the Lowell Sun if you don't have to? ;)

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by: Lynne @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:56:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well (0.00 / 0)

I guess we'll see about that.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:16:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

asdf (0.00 / 0)

Cognitive dissonance.

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by: Sharoney @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:28:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Steady in My Neck of the Woods (0.00 / 0)

Marshfield area is described as "steady" this morning.  My wife and I were #'s 38 & 39 in our precinct (one of multiple precincts here) and that was around 8 AM.

Interesting note - strong Gabrieli and Patrick presence in terms of signs, sign holders, workers/volutneers, etc.  No Reilly presence to speak of yet. 

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by: southshoreguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:25:27 AM CDT

A steady trickle in Medford (0.00 / 0)

Just got back from voting in Medford.  No wait, but there were voters coming in and out the whole time.  I certainly wouldn't call the turnout "heavy" (good thing too, since the guy checking people out wasn't exactly a model of efficiency).

Almost no presence outside the polling station - just two Deval Patrick sign-holders.

Question: anybody know if it matters whether optical scan ballots are inserted right-side-up or upside-down into the machine?

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by: David @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:31:23 AM CDT

It Does Matter (0.00 / 0)

You better go back

Ernie Boch, III is not related to Ernie Boch, Jr. however he does hope to be in his will.

Justice for Tookie

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by: EB3 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:01:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Doesn't matter (0.00 / 0)

it will accept either way if the machine is similar to the ones I've voted on for the last eight years.  Ernie Boch you are devilish.  ;-o

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by: lolorb @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I saw it both ways (0.00 / 0)

The guy in front of me inserted his ballot blank-side up (it wouldn't accept it the other way), but mine was accepted vote-side up.

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by: BlueWatertown @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:03:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Voted @ 7:15am (0.00 / 0)

in Medford. No one else there. Like, no one. One guy outside holding one Reilly sign and two Goldbergs. (Why two?)

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Blue Mass. Group
So what politics do you deserve?

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by: Charley on the MTA @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:32:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

he was holding it for me (0.00 / 0)

I was holding one Little Debby sign but needed to use the facilities.

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by: Herakles @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:00:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Voted at 7:45 in Medford (0.00 / 0)

I was surprised by how few people were there.  My husband and I were voters 14 and 15.  There were some Deval signs there but they were propped against a fence rather than in the hands of a person. 

This was our first time voting in Medford (we moved from Watertown in Dec 04) and were surprised by both the low turnout and the lack of any signage or other info indicating that this was the polling place -- at first, we weren't sure we were even in the right place, as the Vote Here sign was half blown over and the police officer wasn't visible from the street.

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by: kakraig @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:40:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"the Vote Here sign was half blown over" (0.00 / 0)

Signs of a healthy democracy

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:17:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Looks a little slow in Brockton so far (0.00 / 0)

My two-year old is sick so my planned GOTV efforts will be limited :(

On the bright side, I will bring my second grader in to vote for the BMG slate including Dunkelbarger when I pick her up from school, and my husband and I will split primary and sick duty starting at lunch time.

Such an exciting day!!!  Thanks for this thread.

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by: Lara @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:32:03 AM CDT

Your second grader votes? (5.00 / 1)

Now there is an old fashioned Democrat!

Ha, ha.  I'm here all week.  Try the chicken.

I think that is a great thing to do with your kids because it teaches them by example.  I do the same with my son.

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by: CentralMassDad @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:57:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

She really thinks she does.... (0.00 / 0)

"We're voting for Deval Patrick, right Mom?"

I love it.

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by: Lara @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:33:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

ha, ha! (0.00 / 0)

Mine recognized a Tim Murray sign, and said "Hurry for Murry," and scored himself a box a band-aids from Joe Early (for DA)

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by: CentralMassDad @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:57:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good Job (0.00 / 0)

I suggest you enroll your little brainwashee in Jesus Camp.

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by: Herakles @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:03:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hitlerjugend is a good strategy (0.00 / 0)

Get 'em while they're young.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:17:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

East Cambridge (0.00 / 0)

I voted at 7:45 this morning and already 40 people had voted before me.  There were only 3 people holding signs out: 2 for Deval and one for Silbert.

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by: sharpchick @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:40:36 AM CDT

Just Voted in Medford and it is kind of slow... (0.00 / 0)

First time poster and it is on Primary Day! I was not paying much attention to this day until a friend forwarded me a link to BMG's endorsement of Patrick....Just voted for Patrick/Murray....Only signs were for Murray, Reilly, and M. Sullivan outside....The folks that were inside voting looked like a Reilly crowd....I'm pretty confident that Patrick will win...but I would not be shocked if Reilly pulls an upset...Thanks to everyone for reinvigorating my interest in politics! Go Deval!

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by: pcsmith32 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:04:35 AM CDT

Reilly Gets Big Boost Today (0.00 / 0)

I'm with Reilly today and have a new poll to prove it.

Don't be afraid to reccommend it so it does not disapear before Oprah goes on.
I have no pride.

Ernie Boch, III is not related to Ernie Boch, Jr. however he does hope to be in his will.

Justice for Tookie

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by: EB3 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:07:16 AM CDT

moderate turnout in Arlington (0.00 / 0)

Greetings from Chris Gabrieli's one-man field operation in Arlington!  Just kidding--there are a couple dozen of us spread over town, but Deval had sewn up most of the activists months before Chris got in.  Anyway, there were 185 votes at Precinct 8 (Town Hall) as of 9:30, which is about average for this time of day.  Not heavy or light. 

On an encouraging note, the Deval people and the Gabrieli person (me) are getting along just fine and are all agreed that we're together as of 9:00 a.m. tomorrow through November.

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by: OST Guy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:13:05 AM CDT

Arlington, precinct 9 (5.00 / 1)

Voter 203 at 11:20.

One Deval signholder.  One Reilly signholder who had his unused sign upside down in the condo association's garden (grrrr).  Senior citizens in the lobby of the polling place (senior housing development) selling baked goods.  Cupcakes 2 for $1.00  Could I buy one for 50 cents?  No.  They don't want coins.

Patrick-Murray-Bonifaz-Havern-Marzilli.  The optical scanner sang my praises as I inserted the ballot.  Sunny and warm.  Beautiful day for an election.

 Only the cod is sacred.

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by: pablo @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:49:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nothing spectacular in MetroWest (0.00 / 0)

The usual commuter rush between 7 and 8am but very quiet after that.  Unusual since the rush is expected to go to around 8:45. 
Heavy Patrick presence right out of the blocks.  Coffee, smiles, stickers and confidence.  Gabs couple of signholders didn't arrive until 8ish.  Funny comment when they arrived - "we only get paid time-and-a-half starting at 8am."
Lonely Reilly signholder is a well-known Republican. 

Interesting discussion with both the Gabs and Patrick people this morning - strong Silbert support among the group - split with Murray supporters.  But a number of Silbert supporters pulled the trigger for Murray when they walked into the voting booth out of fear of a Goldberg win.  This group was largly female and out-of-home workers.  When pushed they admitted to liking Murray anyway so it wasn't a tough vote, but most stated that even up to last night they fully intended to vote for Silbert.  Their bottom line, they love Silbert by didn't think she could win and believed Goldberg was a drag on the ticket.
Confidence and disconnect from Patrick people - they overwhelmingly think that Healey won't present a difficult challenge to Patrick if he wins today.  We talked about the usual elements of a R win in the gubernatorial and they dismissed them almost out of hand. 
-Things are different this year.
-People are sick of the Romney/Healey administration?.
-Why on earth would anyone vote for Kerry Murphy Healey? 
-What's she done in her life? 
Question - might voters vote against Democratic rule of Beacon Hill rather then vote for her?
-Not this time, she's done nothing to give even conservatives a reason to vote for her.
-If they can't vote for her, they probably just won't vote.
-Deval is not a Beacon Hill insider...

Romney cannot allow Murph to lose this race, he can kiss New Hampshire goodbye in 18 months if she does.  These guys play for keeps.

To John Walsh and company - at tonight's party, no beer, no koolaid.  Lot's of cold, wet slaps in the face. 

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by: drek @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:13:19 AM CDT

Strictly speaking, (0.00 / 0)

none of the three candidates are 'Beacon Hill insiders.'

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:49:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree with all those reasons why this year is different... (0.00 / 0)

But Kerry Healey's got a few million reasons why it could be the same result. Any Deval supporter that is complacent about November is nuts.

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Blue Mass. Group
So what politics do you deserve?

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by: Charley on the MTA @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:37:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not nuts, just a bit ... (0.00 / 0)

green.  Granted the campaign is staffed with solid, experienced people but this is a 'grassroots' effort.  If Patrick wins today it's largely due to the effectiveness of the technology created and employed by the campaign and the grassroots' dedicated field work.  And of course a candidate who inspires them like no one has in a generation. 
The concern is that there may be a sense that the primary was the big kahuna and momentum will carry them through the next seven weeks against a wafer-thin R.  My response to the signholders was that this will not be an election about Kerry Healey.  This will be about Patrick, liberalism, Beacon Hill, and single-party rule.  Oh, and money.  You're dead-right.  13 million dollars buys a lot of negativity, and it won't just come in ads.  The hits will come early and fast. 
The desire of the Massachusetts electorate to have a token R in the corner office to be the "barricade" to overreaching on the part of the D legislature cannot be overstated.  Mix that with attack after attack from Healey, a spoon-fed press who think that covering a story involves changing the name on the press release and a campaign that has to spend its money and time responding to attacks rather than defining the opponent and the issues and you have a recipe for ... more of the same.
But, based on the success of the Patrick campaign to date, if any campaign can change the CW and the tenor of a campaign it's this this one.

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by: drek @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:54:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"It's Kerry's race to lose" (0.00 / 0)

Oops.

I don't expect an easy election in November.  Underestimating Republican skill at campaigning is a surefire way for any Democrat, except perhaps for our senior senator, to lose.

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by: CentralMassDad @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:02:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

south end ward 4 district 1 (0.00 / 0)

A stream of people, maybe 10 people there when I was .  Very few Patrick signs in the south end this morning at the three polling places I saw.  Pushy Dello Russo guy and pushy Samiya Diaz guy.  Lots of Reilly and Gabrielli signs - in the south end! Got me nervous!  I changed my mind and voted for Wilkerson at the last minute today because a friend informed me of the amoutn of power she holds and it would take Sonia a long tiem to achieve that - and considering wilkerson fights for quarry(sp?) reform and prison reform and has been a longtime progressive i forgave her for her financial woes - I still don't feel 100% confident about that vote. 

Mark Snyder, QueerToday

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by: milo200 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:21:41 AM CDT

You get what you deserve (0.00 / 0)

Diane Wilkerson is a disgrace.  Doesn't even file tax returns year after year, misuses and misappropriates campaign monies, misses vote after vote.  I thought I was for CORI reform too, but if she is fer it I'm agin it.

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by: Herakles @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:07:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

wilkerson vs. decency (0.00 / 0)

Sigh.

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by: Harris @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 16:41:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Claire Naughton, Silbert, Patrick in Mansfield (0.00 / 0)

Turnout is strong in Mansfield.  A few hundred people had voted by 7:45.  Dozens of signholders for all of the above candidates.  This should be Tom Reilly territory but I don't think he is nearly as strong as he could be here.  The most competitive race out here is the Naughton/Feeny race for the rep seat being vacated by Coppolla.  Naughton will have the edge if turn out stays strong.  For Lt Gov. Goldberg has the most public backing but Silbert may take the town anyway. 

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by: davrm @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:24:29 AM CDT

after looking at this (0.00 / 0)

I was just readin some things on bostonherald.com and read this which really made glad I voted the way i did for Gabrieli.

http://cache.heraldi...

Deval's views are not ones that are going to win the general election. His stance on taxes, immigration, on criminal record check by employers are not going to resonate with the moderates and independent voters.

I will say it again like I did on dailykos earlier a vote for Patrick is a vote for Healey.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:25:41 AM CDT

Last minute push for Gabrieli (6.00 / 1)

I agree with cmfost.  I'm a left-leaning registered independent and lo and behold, what did I find in my mailbox when I arrived home last night (way out in the rural Pioneer Valley)...a placard from the Gabrieli campaign.  What was this issue that Chris wanted us to consider at the 11th hour?  You guessed it, immigration.  Driver's licenses and paid in-state tuition for illegals?  No thanks, it's hard to admit but...I think I'd rather vote for Kerry Healey.

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by: presidents04 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:42:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Gabs wins.. (0.00 / 0)

I'll still vote for him, but I'm going to go into meh mode... and by meh mode, that means I'll volunteer my time for Paul Hodes and Sheldon Whitehouse and maybe Joe Courtney

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by: jlove1982 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:46:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

ugh (0.00 / 0)

If gabs wins I will be extremely disenchanted again, and I will walk slowly to the polls to vote for him, but i cannot and will not be excited about his candidacy. http://www.youtube.c...

Mark Snyder, QueerToday

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by: milo200 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:00:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't be (0.00 / 0)

at least if Gabrieli wins we willhave a democrat as govenor.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:31:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh really? (0.00 / 0)

Is he REALLY a Democrat?  WIth Karl Rove doing his mailings?

 Only the cod is sacred.

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by: pablo @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:51:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lieberman (0.00 / 0)

is a Democrat, too. At least he says he is.

There are Democrats, and there are Democrats.

I prefer a candidate who can excite the grassroots, not his banker.

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by: Sharoney @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:54:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I prefer a Democrat (0.00 / 0)

Not a neoliberal member of corporate America- regardless of how well they can 'excite the grassroots.'

Speaking of which, it doesn't sound, on BMG or the news, that the turnout is very high. What gives? I thought that we were 'inspiring' people.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:20:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)

You created an account today to echo cmfost, who also created an account today.  Do you and cmfost, perhaps...know each other?  Creating your own little echo chamber, in which you bait people's fear of illegal immigrants?  All the while, ignoring inconventient facts, like the multiple studies showing that in-state tuition for the 300 to 400 students effected by this law would INCREASE revenues to the state?

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:10:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

meh... (0.00 / 0)

Baiting people's fear (there's that convenient word - fear - we're just so scared!) of illegals....oh wait...i'm sorry, they're "immigrant activists", right?  I didn't make any mention of whether or not the state would benefit financially from illegals paying in-state tuition costs, though I'm quite certain those oh-so-specific 'multiple studies' you cite are patently false (I graduated from UMass-Boston 3 years ago, and I know what the tuition rates were, and they sure as hell weren't making any money off of in-state tuition costs).  In fact, I don't think that financial considerations are even the #1 priority here.  How about driver's licenses for illegals?  Have our highways not been crowded enough since Labor Day, or have you simply not been driving on them?  If not, kudos to you...and I mean that.  Would that we had a better statewide system of public transport, but this too is only a secondary consideration.

When I travel abroad, I need to honor the requirements of the temporary visa granted by my host country.  If I violate the terms, I should be sent back home, period - not given incentives to break the law.  It's no different here.  Your enabler mentality masquerading as pragmatism not only disregards the law, if writ-large - it also poses a serious threat to our state's fiscal health.

Whatever happened to common sense in the Democratic Party...

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by: presidents04 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:15:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

lol (0.00 / 0)

that's a new one! i guess its time we blame our traffic on illegal immigrants, now, too! ROFL.

---
My thoughts are mine and mine alone. They should not be considered representative of any other organization, group or person - save me.

~Ryan.

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by: Ryepower12 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:29:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

dude you are just hilarious! (0.00 / 0)

Yes, I just blamed traffic on illegals!  No, wait...I didn't.

But in all seriousness, handing out more drivers licenses will exacerbate the problem, or am I wrong...

Maybe, just maybe, another several thousand drivers on the road will actually improve the flow of traffic on the Southeast Expressway.

BTW, you're using Sean Hannity / Rush Limbaugh tactics in attempting to refute what I've written...do you even realize it?

Here's a tip: maybe write something substantive.

To all of you still lurking here - I sincerely hope it's clear by now.

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by: presidents04 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:41:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Studies (5.00 / 1)

Not specific enough?  If it's specific references to studies that you want, you need only ask.  There's one from the Mass Taxpayer's Foundation which you can find referenced in their press release at http://www.miracoali... , and one fromt he Boston Redevelopment Authority, which you can find a memo about at http://www.miracoali... .  I'd also point out that neither of these is a left-wing nor immigrant-focused organization. 

A note on debating technique--know what you're talking about before you dismiss it out of hand.  Your reference to "oh-so-specific 'multiple studies'" indicates that you're not at all familiar with them, yet you dismiss them out of hand as false.  I know several students and professors at UMass Boston, and they'd all fail you for that.

If you read the studies, I'll be glad to hear your replies.  If not, it's clear that you've taken a position without considering the facts, in which case arguing with you is about as useful as trying to convince Yankees fans that their team sucks.

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 16:26:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK (0.00 / 0)

"you're not at all familiar with them, yet you dismiss them out of hand as false."

Fair enough, the Mass Taxpayers Assoc. study is quite surprising to me, but it certainly is legitimate so points to you...I was able to read the first one you cite (the second one was a bad link), and of course they aren't a far-left coalition.  I read the report, and found it interesting, yet deeply flawed.  It seemed to base it's statistics off of similar *guesses* made in Texas in a similar 'study' - and I do use that term loosely.  Why my skepticism?  Well, if to use their language we are talking about 'undocumented immigrants' - then there is absolutely no way to accurately estimate their prominance in any particular area.  Many live in established households, others are squatters, still others have (illegal) month to month rentals in both working-class and middle-class communities.  And to me, these projected numbers seem very, very lowball.

I will tell you that I work on the side as a private instructor in a very upscale town, and at least one Deval-supporting soccer-mom (who I like, personally) has a housecleaner who from every indication is an illegal.  I don't think there's any question that there are many, many thousands of people here who - whether or not they support Deval - are...hmmm...'making good use' of our burgeoning population of illegals.  Far too many people (mostly the wealthier among us) have too much to lose by seeing our laws properly enforced.

I think it's a disturbing trend.  I know it's over and my primary reason for posting here is defunct, but if you're still reading this, I welcome your feedback.

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by: presidents04 @ Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:50:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

so far... (0.00 / 0)

I got to my polling place with my wife at 7:10 and voted, then stood outside with my Silbert/Patrick sign until about 10:15. There was some traffic around the first hour, but not very much yet. I'm guessing most people will vote on the way home from work. I spent a long time talking to another Patrick volunteer, and older woman from down the street who is originally from Harwich and very pro-wind farm, and shared a lot of interesting discussion abotu the Cape, about Waltham and Framingham, and about the Canadian Maritimes. Learned a lot about my newish home and had fun. Long day ahead though. Ok, class time...

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by: alexwill @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:37:37 AM CDT

oh please (5.67 / 3)

The definition of insanty, according to Einstien: People who do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. If you want to vote for a candidate based on a whole slew of random, detailed positions... go for it. However, it won't win an election and if anything could lose it. People want clear distinctions, they don't want shifty politicians. Your definition of "electibility" is fatally flawed: we've seen its flaws for the past 10 years, losing election after election after election. Meanwhile, our country is becoming the land of smoke and ashes, as people struggle to get by. Vote for real change; vote for Deval Patrick.

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My thoughts are mine and mine alone. They should not be considered representative of any other organization, group or person - save me.

~Ryan.

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by: Ryepower12 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:39:28 AM CDT

RE:OH Please (3.00 / 9)

You are just blinded by the blogs another lemming heading to the slaughter. You are giving you arguement based on what other people of told you maybe even not what you think. This is what the republicans want you to do. They will be able to easily beat Deval Patrick. I do not know about you but I do not want that to happen.

So Ryepower - tell me are the views of Deval Patrick as laid out on the info sheet from the Bostonherald agree with your positions?

Are you against lowering taxes? Do you want you tasex raised by having a meal tax? Do you think Illegal Immgriants should have driver licenses? Should employers not have the ability to  do criminal backround checks?

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:53:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, I do agree with Patrick (6.00 / 7)

If he's blinded by the blogs, then you're blinded by a right-wing rag that isn't worth the paper it's written on. A few comments:

Are you against lowering taxes? Do you want you tasex raised by having a meal tax?

I'm tired of politicians who promise the world - lower taxes plus popular new programs - but have no way to achieve it. Patrick is honest - he's going to keep the income tax the same so that we can increase aid to cities and towns, and keep the regressive property tax low. He also has a plan to streamline spending (see web site) and reduce healthcare costs so that our tax dollars are spent wisely.

Should employers not have the ability to  do criminal backround checks?

Patrick stated very clearly in the last debate that employers should of course have the access they need. But that access shouldn't be unlimited, which I think we can both agree on for privacy reasons.

So if you actually listen to what the candidate says, not a biased media source, you'll get much more useful information.

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by: BlueWatertown @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:19:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am not blinded (3.00 / 3)

I look at the facts and the facts tell me that Deval patrick is the only one who will not lower taxes, in fact he is the only democrat who would actually raise taxes. The way he is going to increase aid to cities and towns is the local meal tax.

The fact of the matter is he is to left to win and that is what bothers me. I do not want Kerry Healey as my govenor but I as well as many people, the ones who actually vote, also do not want Deval Patrick as our govenor and find Healey only more appealing since she will at least keep control of our left leaning state house.

I am sorry for all you blind lemmings to hear this but if Patrick wins Kerry Healey will win the election becuase middle class moderates who make up a majority of the electorate will not support Deval Patrick.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:30:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Being too left is a canard (6.00 / 1)

Your claim is contradicted by facts. The latest polls have been saying that Patrick is winning among all Democratic sub-groups, including moderates. That's because people of all political stripes value honesty, they all value candor, and they all value hope.

Patrick was only proposing that localities should have the power to impose local meal taxes, if they want to. Local taxes are often not approved; for instance, the CPA was voted down in my town last year. So again you are distorting the facts.

Finally, with respect to "balance" and "control": Is having the legislature override everything Romney vetos what you call "balance"? I don't think so - it just enforces the fact that the governor is powerless in legislative affairs, outside of his executive branch appointments.

The only real way to "balance" the legislature is to have a partner who doesn't always agree, but can work together on constructive ideas to better our commonwealth. "Balance" will come from a political outsider, someone with no previous ties to the Beacon Hill establishment and no debts to repay. Deval Patrick beats Healey on both counts.

If you want the status quo - political bickering and inaction while people and jobs leave Massachusetts - then perhaps 4 more years of Republican rule is right for you. If you want bold new leadership that will get us moving in the right direction, then vote Deval Patrick.

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by: BlueWatertown @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:48:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

that's the problem (3.00 / 1)

It's not bold new leadership. It the same tax and spend democratic leadership we have had for years in Mass.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:52:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hey, cmfost, (0.00 / 0)

I see you're over here flogging the same lame-o talking points to death (as CMFoster) as you did at DailyKos.

Putting your hands over your ears, screwing your eyes shut and repeating, "Is so! Is so!" didn't wash there, either.

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by: Sharoney @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:11:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yah, good plan! (6.00 / 1)

Borrow and spend conservatives are the reason the federal budget is a mess.

Both sides want to spend, Patrick is honest enough to say we actually have to pay for that.

If you think that the majority of the electorate are immature children who think that the state gov't should not pay back then 500 mil taken out of the rainy day fund, fine.  Personally, I have a bit more faith that when people are faced with an honest assessment, they are willing to give up just a bit for the common good.

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by: dansomone @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 12:53:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Am I against lowering taxes? Hmmm (6.00 / 4)

Am I against bridges crumbling because there's not enough money for needed capital investments in our infrastructure?

Am I against the shameful state of our public parks, because there's not enough money to properly maintain them?

Am I against potholes in my streets because there's not enough money to repair them in a timely manner?

Am I against ever-rising user fees in cities and town to make up for the shortfall in state aid?

Like everyone, I'm against "waste." You know, like the obscene amounts of money wasted in the Big Dig. Western suburban residents who happen to use the Massachusetts Turnpike - even if we never drive on the new-construction Big Dig - will be paying for that for decades.

But I'm also against cutting taxes in a fiscally irresponsible way. "Taxes" don't only pay for pork. "Taxes" also pay for things I really want and need.

The old adage that people get the government they deserve, sadly, has some merit. Poorly run government is a problem. People who aren't involved and don't pressure for change are also a problem. For the first time in many years, I feel that there's a candidate for governor who would be responsive to people, who would really work to create government as a force for good for all of us, AND who has the charisma and eloquence to help make it happen. I disagree with some of Deval Patrick's positions, but I support him anyway. There's NO candidate who I agree with 100%.

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by: oceandreams @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:58:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm not some mindless sheep (0.00 / 0)

I came to that conclusion over a year before I started reading blogs - which means around the previous Presidential election. I was in a campaigns and elections seminar and was studying in depth several Senate races. I realized that the Democrats were just buying into all of the Republican games and getting stuck trying to be republican-lite and it just wasn't working. Furthermore, I knew enough about other races that the same candidates were popping up all over... and, in large part, losing.

Of course I'm against lowering the Massachusetts state income tax - it's already relatively low as is. I don't want a meals tax, but I don't think that should be up to the state government: towns should be in control of such things. If they want to charge a buck for a meals tax to help raise some funds for their schools, that's their choice. Individual towns know best what they can and can't afford to do in terms of the risk vs. reward of a local meals tax.

Do I think illegal immigrants should have drivers licenses? Well, let's look at it this way: are they driving? Yes. Do they have insurance, since they don't have licenses? No. Who does that hurt? Everyone else. So, yes, you could say - for pragmatic reasons - I favor licenses for illegal immigrants. And Deval Patrick's position isn't that employers shouldn't be able to do CORI checks, it's that he doesn't think they should be able to look up unrelated information - which makes sense.

On the issues, you have either been mislead or are misleading. However, I suspect it won't work too well on a forum such as this... you gotta love those informed voters making it hard on candidates who have relied on low information voters for years. We're really screwing things up for them, aren't we?

Most importantly, those issues aren't the core issues that I'm going to make a decision about - and neither will most people. They aren't the issues that will make Massachusetts a vastly better place to live in. They won't make this state more prosperous or affordable. On those issues, Deval Patrick wins hands-down; he's right when he says he not only has great ideas, but the charisma and leadership to actually make them happen.

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My thoughts are mine and mine alone. They should not be considered representative of any other organization, group or person - save me.

~Ryan.

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by: Ryepower12 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 12:42:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

actually you are (0.00 / 0)

you have bought into almost every idea that this site and many like it have been telling you instead of finding out on your own.

And I disagree with a lot of Deval Patricks positions that is why I can not vote with him. I tend to chosse the candidate who I agree with the most as do most people.

I do not think Illegal Immigrants should have driver licenses unless they are trying to become citzens and paying taxes, I also do not think they should get breaks on in-state tuition unless they are trying to become citzens and paying taxes.

If we want are state to prosper and grow we should not raise any tax or propose anythin new. Keep the tax rate at the current rate and give it back to the towns in the form of state aid.

I am for Merit Pay raises for teachers, why should teachers get raises just because they have seniority, that not how it works in the real jobs, the biggest raises should go to the people who deserve them. We should really abolish the tenure system as it keep good potential young teachers out of the state and older teachers who are not as good in their jobs in jobs. Again another things that does not happen in the real world.

I believe we should have the MCAS standard for graduation just the test needs to be changed to cover all subject matters.

I believe Gay should be able to marry. I believe we should have Casino's in the state.

And as for your last statement, and I will quote you "Deval Patrick wins hands-down; he's right when he says he not only has great ideas, but the charisma and leadership to actually make them happen."

I watched the last 2 debates and I did not see anything new or exciting about him.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:06:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Plant (0.00 / 0)

Gabrieli staffer.  Nice new account started at 9Am this morning.

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by: Ed Prisby @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:29:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

not at all (0.00 / 0)

I have been a loyal member at dailykos for a while and just recently found out about this site.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:59:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why would it even matter? (0.00 / 0)

What should matter are the arguments, not the person posting.

Although I have noticed that some BMGers tend to go for the 'you're a campaign plant' argument when people disagree with them.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:21:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So you agree with many of Patrick's policies (6.00 / 1)

It is you who is not finding out on your own. You started by saying you disagreed with many of his proposals, but then you went on to list many things (though not all) that you agree with.

If we want are state to prosper and grow we should not raise any tax or propose anythin new. Keep the tax rate at the current rate and give it back to the towns in the form of state aid.

That is what Patrick is proposing to do. He wants to keep the tax rate constant and give it to cities and towns.

I am for Merit Pay raises for teachers, why should teachers get raises just because they have seniority, that not how it works in the real jobs, the biggest raises should go to the people who deserve them.

As he says in his education policy proposal: "Support High Quality Teaching. Quality instruction is the key to academic success for any student. Teachers must continually strengthen their skills. Outstanding teachers should be paid more."

I believe we should have the MCAS standard for graduation just the test needs to be changed to cover all subject matters.

Patrick agrees that the test should be a grad. requirement and should include a science component.

I believe Gay should be able to marry.

Patrick agrees.

It's funny what happens when you actually learn about a candidate from a reputable source.
 

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by: BlueWatertown @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:41:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

?? (0.00 / 0)

Dude, you started an account TODAY to try to convince a very well-informed group to change their minds?  Not a useful investment of time.

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:57:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

again (0.00 / 0)

I may have started an account today but have been blogging about my support for Gabrieli for a while especially on dailykos.

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by: cmfost @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:01:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

To clarify (0.00 / 0)

I'm not questioning your commitment--I'm questioning your strategy.  What do you think you'll accomplish with long posts on primary day?  With the possible exception of the LG race, I'd guess that 95% of people on this site know how they're going to vote (or have done it already).  If you want to be effective, go give out palm cards at a polling place or do turnout for a candidate's identified supporters.

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:05:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Believe me, don't believe me, I don't know cmfost, however... (0.00 / 0)

My posting on here today has absolutely nothing to do with trying to convince any of the blue-mass-group regulars to change their minds, and it's no surprise that most of you support Patrick.  But it has everything to do with the fact that this was the first hit on Google when I did a simple search this morning, and my logical deduction that many undecided potential voters would be lurking here today.

If you don't believe that the vast majority of officially unenrolled voters would be far more likely to support Gabrieli than Patrick come November, especially regarding the issues of immigration and crime, then I don't know what to tell you.

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by: presidents04 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:30:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Now that's curious (0.00 / 0)

My question still stands.  Even if you thinnk that most voters will hate Deval Patrick, even if you thinkt hat he's political poison, why waste your time going onto a largely pro-Patrick site--ON PRIMARY DAY--and trying to convince people to vote for Gabrieli?  If you care so much and think that Deval will do so much damage, why are you on the computer talking with the decided instead of standing at polls talking to the undecided?

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by: fieldscornerguy @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 16:29:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

gotta run, but to your still-standing questions: (0.00 / 0)

a: Undecideds are lurking here before heading to the polls, very few people go to the polls still undecided, most will do some research beforehand - and if this was the first hit on google after a simple search, *many* are here

b: I'm at work

How about you?

Gotta run, but thanks for the discussion today, it's been pretty good.

-prez

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by: presidents04 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 16:36:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe... (0.00 / 0)

...he's just trying to have a discussion. I thought that was what blogs were for.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:22:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

interesting... (6.00 / 2)

And I disagree with a lot of Deval Patricks positions that is why I can not vote with him.

Fair enough.

I also do not think they should get breaks on in-state tuition unless they are trying to become citzens and paying taxes.

Then why aren't you voting for Deval? That's exactly what the bill that failed - which Deval supported - would have done. Only people who were in the process of becoming citizens would have been eligible for in state tuition.

I believe we should have the MCAS standard for graduation

Again, why aren't you voting for Deval? He's in favor of the MCAS too.

I believe Gay should be able to marry.

Again, why aren't you voting for Deval? Do you even know his positions?

I watched the last 2 debates and I did not see anything new or exciting about him.

Well, that's always a personal opinion, but the *only* person I know of who thought Deval did terrible in the debates was Howie Carr. If you and Howie Carr find yourselves agreeing a lot, perhaps you're voting in the wrong primary.

But in any event, your attack on me -

you have bought into almost every idea that this site and many like it have been telling you instead of finding out on your own.

Holds little water when you don't seem to hold a grasp on the issues or the positions candidates are taking on those issues. I've been covering this race on my own site for more than six months now, reading hundreds of newspaper articles and forming my own opinion on the race. I've studied electoral politics under some of the brightest professors you'll find, despite the fact that we'd disagree on a lot of things. It takes knowledge to make such an educated opinion and your attack on me wreaks of hypocrisy when you don't have said knowledge.

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My thoughts are mine and mine alone. They should not be considered representative of any other organization, group or person - save me.

~Ryan.

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by: Ryepower12 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:42:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Notes from deepest suburbia (6.00 / 1)

I arrived at Holliston High to hold a Patrick sign at about 7:30. There were six or seven of us with Patrick signs, one Gabrielli signholder and one Reilly signholder -- a guy who normally votes Republican. There was also one person holding signs for Gerry Leone and Martha Coakley. No signholders for any of the LG candidates. We mostly chatted about town politics, planning board issues, that sort of thing.

Light-to-moderate traffic, I'd say. I voted at 9:10 and was #78 for my precinct (four precincts in Holliston).

Driving in to work, I passed the Sherborn polling place -- four Patrick signholders, no one for any other candidate.

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by: MetroWest Dem @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:42:00 AM CDT

out here in the hinterlands (0.00 / 0)

turnout is moderate to heavy in our berkshire town, with nary a reilly or gabrieli sign in sight.  (just like our caucus, come to think of it, where reilly didn't even have nomination papers out for people to sign, let alone literature or any actual supporters.)  this morning, i did the 7-9 shift outside the polls, and almost everyone coming in expressed enthusiasm for deval's candidacy and chances. 

our county's DA, who is facing a vigorous and justified (though quite likely doomed) challenge from the left showed up for a while, grinning at the arriving voters.  he'd lost that reilly button he was sporting back at the convention.  today's primary is his race to lose, and he surely figured that, at least in our town, the thing that would most cost him votes was to be seen as opposing deval's candidacy. 

my statewide prediction:  deval by 5.

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by: theoryhead @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:48:05 AM CDT

Salem this morning (6.00 / 1)

Light turnout in Salem when I went to vote around 8.  Driving through town I passed a few of our polling places and saw several Deval signs, a couple for Gabbers, and none for Reilly.  Word from Peabody, however, is that there is a heavy Gabrieli presence in that city; with a contested State Rep election (Fitzgerald v. Spiliotis) there could be a higher than normal turnout in the city, which might bode well for Gabrieli there.

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by: JABarnes @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:54:01 AM CDT

Nothing (0.00 / 0)

for any of the Gov candidates about a half-hour ago at my polling place in Peabody (which covers 2 precints). Only signs at all were for Fitzgerald and Spiliotis.


"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused"--E. Costello

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by: ChurchofBruce @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 14:40:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Boylston MA - 01505 (0.00 / 0)

Update from the 505 Baby! 

Set up my combo Deval / Murray sign at 7:05 AM this morning. (2 Devals and a Murry on the same piece of wood. We are the only campaign(s) there.

A ZILLION Thumbs up - from passersby on the main road too!

I got relief at 10:00 am to vote and I was #143 - poll workers think it's a little more than usual

Back to standout at 1-3:30 then 5-8 to get the numbers then I'll see you all at the Copley Fairmont... :)

Wayne

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by: Since1792 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:54:31 AM CDT

Early Turnout Light. . . (0.00 / 0)

or so says the Boston Globe/i>.

Of course, the story mentions only 5 polling places.

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We have by far the biggest gov candidate presence in the city...scratch that, pretty much the ONLY presence we've seen thus far. I saw my first Gabrieli sign/supporter at the biggest polling location in Lowell, and that's it so far. I suspect there might be more from other campaigns as the largest # of voters show up after work.

We have greater than 50% coverage most of the day at all 20 polling locations, reaction is GREAT from voters, drivers who see the signs, etc. Tonight we have big coverage and then a victory party at the Dubliner in downtown Lowell (market st) though I will be going into Copley because I'm insane that way. Our GOTV calls are going great as well.

Left in Lowell: cuz why read the Lowell Sun if you don't have to? ;)

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by: Lynne @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 13:52:22 PM CDT

Lowell (0.00 / 0)

Forget the making history stuff in the rest of the state.  If Deval takes Lowell, that will certainly make the Republicans nervous.

 Only the cod is sacred.

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by: pablo @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:18:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I appreciate Lynne's optimism and hard work as town coordinator (0.00 / 0)

But as another Lowellian and Deval supporter, I'm a bit more guarded. I'll wait until I get the results at the Dubliner tonight.

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by: Tim Little @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:28:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Deval takes Lowell (0.00 / 0)

I'll post a picture of me eating my shoe.

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by: mromanov @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 18:32:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

*hugs* (0.00 / 0)

We need more people like you Lynne! I don't know how you have that much energy.

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My thoughts are mine and mine alone. They should not be considered representative of any other organization, group or person - save me.

~Ryan.

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by: Ryepower12 @ Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 15:45:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]