DevalPatrick.com Gives us a Voice

Don't Forget to Vote (6.00 / 1)

Thank you David for your kind words. The DLP site gives us a chance to be heard. Your site gives us a chance to discuss.  Kate

Kate Donaghue, volunteer.

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by: Kate @ Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 22:42:49 PM CDT

And if you're voting... (6.00 / 1)

consider voting to Expand the Bottle Bill

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by: stomv @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 08:30:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

BTW - from the proprietary tone - (0.00 / 0)

Is this 'Kate' associated with the web site or the Campaign Committee?

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 15:09:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Who is Kate (6.00 / 1)

Peter,  I am Kate Donaghue.  I earn my living in the private sector.  I was a volunteer with the Deval Patrick Campaign and am a volunteer with the Deval Patrick Committee.  I volunteer in many campaigns.  I was involved with the development of the precursors to the Deval Patrick site, but I was not involved with the development of the site.  I believe that the Internet is a means of increasing communication and urge those who are interested to sign up for my free Democratic e-mail newsletter.  Send an e-mail to ddemdispatch-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

Kate

Kate Donaghue, volunteer.

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by: Kate @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 22:39:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thank you, Kate! (0.00 / 0)

BMG tries to observe the 'Cos Rule', based on Cos practically making the fact that he worked for Bonifaz part of his signature during the campaign.  When we have a specific tie or allegiance, especially paid, we post a disclaimer.

All you really had to say was, 'I am a DP campaign volunteer, and was involved with precursors to this site, although not this site specifically'.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 15:03:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

DP goes meta? (0.00 / 0)

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by: afertig @ Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 22:47:12 PM CDT

I've tried.. (0.00 / 0)

I tried to register, it said my email address was already in use.

I tried to ask for it to send me a password.. it said the email address was unknown.

And all I wanted to do was go in to vote in favor of the income tax rollback!

Guess they have some more work to do.


Dracut Forum a small town with a big future

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by: Shawn A @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 06:24:48 AM CDT

use 10minutemail.com (0.00 / 0)

Shawn, use 10minutemail.com to creat a username.  Then you can remain anonymous if you like.

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by: EaBoClipper @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 06:46:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

community tool (0.00 / 0)

were you using the community tool during the campaign?

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by: alexwill @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 07:03:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Never heard of that.. (0.00 / 0)

But I'll do what eabo recommended above.. that'll probably take care of it for me.

Dracut Forum a small town with a big future

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by: Shawn A @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 07:09:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

See, Alex - SOME of us interested in Civic Engagement weren't WORKING on Deval's campaign. (0.00 / 0)

This IS allegedly open to everybody, right?

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 08:24:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

of course :) (0.00 / 0)

my point was that Shawn said his email address was already in use, so the most obvious reason would be that he'd been working on the campaign. if not, who knows why?

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by: alexwill @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 08:29:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bug should be fixed (0.00 / 0)

I reported the problem that you listed to the engineer who developed much of this.  He tells me that he thinks it's now fixed.  Thanks! Kate

Kate Donaghue, volunteer.

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by: Kate @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 22:29:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agree halfway (5.00 / 2)

You say that

For those involved in Deval Patrick's innovative, grassroots-driven, decentralized, and empowering campaign, any "controversy" about the governor's relaunched website is much ado about nothing.

After conversing with Deval's followers these few months, it seems that one could replace "the governor's relaunched website" with any mistake Deval has made (and for some people, any mistake he will make) and simply reuse the sentence.

Kate, you have a great dedication to civic engagement with the government.  Sadly, devalpatrick.com is about bypassing government, and going directly through a parallel structure setup, paid for, and about Deval and his backers while neatly evading the government. 

Perhaps some people find the "small group" -- that faceless enemy -- as a satisfying opponent, but to call the people involved with government a small group is off the mark.  If anything, the website users are people already engaged.  It isn't a "small group" that fills up all our town committees, our state conventions, and the campaign trails on either side.  It is a dedicated group with thousands of members. 

~~~~
Believe it or not, I have even more to say...

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by: sabutai @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 10:50:43 AM CDT

I disagree with the middle bit... (5.00 / 1)

Kate, you have a great dedication to civic engagement with the government.  Sadly, devalpatrick.com is about bypassing government, and going directly through a parallel structure setup, paid for, and about Deval and his backers while neatly evading the government.

See, I disagree with this.  Checking back in and engaging doesn't have to wholly involve hanging out at the State House talking to legislators or members of the executive branch.  Throwing ideas, concerns, and issues across the community is important too -- we learn about issues and ideas we hadn't encountered before.  We meet people who share similar concerns, allowing us to organize, synthesize, and then once we're ready, engage directly with government.


It's not about evading the government.  It's about organizing, so that the government can't evade us individually.  Maybe the site will help organize a massive shift in policy.  I doubt it.  It will certainly, however, help us inform and educate and influence each other, and help us find other active community members with similar interests, thereby allowing us to strengthen our position.


This is also why I don't think this should be on a .gov server somewhere.  This isn't about fixing potholes and getting help with incorrect utility bills.

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by: stomv @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 10:56:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Get a clue! (0.00 / 0)

It appears that those who attack this website are threatened by ordinary citizens being active and engaged.

Huh?  The "attacks" are coming from concerned citizens who are appalled at how the site was launched.  Personal information revealed to the public, total PR spin, and most disgustingly, the Governor will not remove the dispicable 9/11 post from the site. 

What do you mean that those who "attack" the site are "threatened by ordinary citizens being active and engaged"?  Do you really believe that?  I think the site is another albatross around Devall's neck, but I certainy am not threatened by those who support the site.

What, exactly is so special about the site?  There are hundreds of ways to "engage in discourse" without a site owned and operated by and for the Governor. The internet is nothing new.

-immovable

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by: immovable @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 14:06:32 PM CDT

what is despicible? (0.00 / 0)

You might think the 9/11 post is baseless and despicible, but I think the same of the anti-marriage post.  The solution is to leave up all posts as long as they attampt to use logic to get their message across.  Of course, we will not agree on what constitutes logic, either, but the site managers seem satisfied to give wide berth to that question.  Maybe we both should be happy for that.

I personally think the site shouldn't have been launched with unnecessary access to personal info, but I do applaud it for creating a forum for citizen participation, and for keeping posts up that don't toe one partisan line or the other.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

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by: Laurel @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 14:59:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Despicible = Linking the Governor with 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (0.00 / 0)

You don't see a problem with that?  For a start, eventually a Google search for "9/11 conspiracy theories" will yield Deval Patrick's name!!  He should not be asscociated with that at all.

you might think the 9/11 post is baseless and despicible

What?  Let me be clear: The 9/11 post IS TOTALLY BASELESS AND DESCPICIBLE.  It represents the bastardation of reason that has taken over the left!  It's a problem for the Democrats and for the Governor.  I predict it will be removed eventually specifically for that reason.

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by: immovable @ Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 12:50:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If so altruistic, then why this... (6.00 / 1)

From the DevalPatrick.com Terms of Service:

User-Contributed Content

Content that you post on DevalPatrick.com is covered by the same Creative Commons license that applies to Deval Patrick Committee content, as described above. In addition, you grant the Deval Patrick Committee a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, create derivative works from, distribute, and display this content in any media.

Emphasis mine. Put another way, they can take your words and make them fit their message. 

Nice.

Previous signature had been getting more attention than my comments. Removed out of jealousy.

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by: dweir @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 14:27:50 PM CDT

Missed THAT because of the MEGO Factor! good catch! (0.00 / 0)

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 14:33:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

SOP (0.00 / 0)

It's not unusual. Stuff submitted to any comments section of the Globe or NYTimes, I suspect, have the same disclaimer.

As someone who does websites and content for a living...take it from me. If you go on someone else's site, chances are they have reserved that copyright.

Left in Lowell: cuz why read the Lowell Sun if you don't have to? ;)

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by: Lynne @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 19:20:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lynne - find me one! (0.00 / 0)

I'm not able to find a site that slaps a copyright on unpaid content.

I have a Creative Commons license on my own site, and what mine says is that you can't quote me without attirbution, but that I don't expect royalties (althought I DO have a donate button and mug-selling forum!).  Says NOTHING about "grant[ing] the [me] a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, create derivative works from, distribute, and display this content [which would be my comments] in any media."

I mean - IRREVOCABLE? MODIFY?

Wait...do Charley, Bob and David have the right to MODUFY what I say here, and re-post it elsewhere attributed to me?  Aiiieeee!!!

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 13:32:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not Threatened, but Concerned (0.00 / 0)

Kate, I'm not threatened by the site in the least...

But I do have concerns about it. I think it's great to get people involved in the process -- it's why I was for Deval Patrick from very early on in the process.

But why is this site at DevalPatrick.com? Why isn't it somewhere on mass.gov? Is Patrick planning on governing based on this, or merely campaigning?

I know (or, to be exact, I am pretty sure) that it's the former... but it looks bad. By putting the "issues" engine up on what was the campaign site, it looks like it's all just PR and campaign spin.

It's a bad PR move, and I'm not sure how many people are really going to take it seriously as a result.

--
If you want to live like a Republican, you better vote like a Democrat. —Harry Truman

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by: dcsohl @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 16:40:18 PM CDT

so far (0.00 / 0)

2195 users have taken it seriously, speaking on 375 issues, ataking 4091 votes.  this according to the stats on the "issues" page.  and these are people on all sides of various issues too, not jsut bluer than blue sign holders.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

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by: Laurel @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 16:44:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is it governing if it's only one person? (0.00 / 0)

Okay, it's a tool for community organizing. I get that, but that isn't governing. Is it "governing" for Deval Patrick to read and respond to comments made on the site? I suppose so, but let's say he likes one of the ideas, then what?

From the Feedback page:

If you want your suggestion to be reviewed by a member of the governor's staff, please use the form at http://mass.gov/gove...

When I would write to the Romney administration using the mass.gov site, my letters were routed to the appropriate authority, and I would receive a timely and through response. Some of the things I wrote were along the same lines of what is being posted on DevalPatrick.com. I suppose one advantage is that a person could gather a few hundred supporters on the non-government site, and then write to the governor's office and cite the groundswell of support.

Does it matter?

Will a department head give more attention to an idea simply because it has 400 names attached to it rather than just one?  I don't know.

Even if it did get attention, is this a good thing? The site doesn't allow people to vote against an idea, so you get "group think" for any particular entry. Some of the worst legislation (health care, universal pre-school) were developed in a similarly non-critical environment.

Previous signature had been getting more attention than my comments. Removed out of jealousy.

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by: dweir @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 17:58:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's about communicating with each other as well as those who govern (6.00 / 1)

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments. 

It's not just lobbyists, or the people who donate many hours to campaigns who have a voice.  It is the busy parent who can only squeezes out some time late in the evening.  It is the person who cares about government and chooses this as a tool for involvement. 

I can't speak for the campaign, but I suspect that it about more than just communicating with the governor; it's about communicating with each other.

Thanks to all who voted.

Kate

Kate Donaghue, volunteer.

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by: Kate @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 22:36:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I would add... (0.00 / 0)

that it's all about sunshine as well.  Never before has a MA citizen had this type of tool to be able to see what others were submitting as issues.  For the poster above who talks about sending requests to the Romney administration and being redirected to the appropriate departments -- did you know who else was doing the same and what their thoughts were?  I bet you didn't and I bet the Romney administration would never have offered a highly visible site for communicating ideas.  That's what Deval's campaign was about, and he's followed up on his promises. 

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by: lolorb @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:33:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You've got it backwards (6.00 / 1)

My correspondence with the Romney adminstration, via the mass.gov website, is part of the public record. So, too is the government's response to me. The same cannot be said of the postings on devalpatrick.com. While I have legal standing to compel the former to share all public comment received on a particular topic, I am not certain the same rules apply to the Patrick Committee.

When the Governor says he'll be reading these posts and even responding to them, devalpatrick.com then becomes official correspondence pertaining to government business. And everything posted there -- messages to the governor and his responses -- should become part of the public record. That is why it is not okay for the site to have the copyright language reserving "the right" to delete or modify content.

I'm a public official. I have a blog. I also, up until a few weeks ago, used a separate, but personal, e-mail account to correspond with constituents. All of this is part of the public record. I have fulfilled a public record request from a newspaper reporter by sending a copy of email correspondence from my personal account. At the end of my term (sooner if the files get too large), I'll be zipping it all up and giving a digital copy to the town clerk. My actions are evidence of my ethic and belief in transparency of government.

The website is a nice gesture, maybe even a good idea, but the more I think about it, the more problems appear. It seems to me that the governor either doesn't fully understand the rules or prefers to skirt around them.

Previous signature had been getting more attention than my comments. Removed out of jealousy.

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by: dweir @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:57:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Nice try, (0.00 / 0)

but your correspondence to the Romney administration, of which I'm sure there's a lot, is part of the public record. How long is it gonna take you to get a specific piece of documentation or a list of documents relating to the same topic?  It's not sitting on a web site that anyone can view now is it?  It seems to me that you like all the rules because you are fully aware of what they are.  Maybe it's just change that you're not so crazy about.

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by: lolorb @ Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 07:13:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah, the classic left attack (0.00 / 0)

I find myself needing to bite my fingers so much on this site. Bad, bad leftist habits of making emotional and personal arguements rather than making a rational response. But seeing as you chose to make assumptions about me personally, I'll make an exception.

but your correspondence to the Romney administration, of which I'm sure there's a lot, is part of the public record.

And perhaps if you hadn't been so quick to make a snide remark about me, you would have seen that I say this in the very first sentence of my post. Maybe this explains why leftists like you are so agains the MCAS?

How long is it gonna take you to get a specific piece of documentation or a list of documents relating to the same topic?

I've never tried.  Never been interested. But, there's no technical reason why a well-formed query to the statehouse couldn't be fulfilled -- retrieved, copied, sent -- within minutes. Now, I'm a reasonable person, and I don't need to have my information requests fulfilled so quickly. However, via the public records law, I know that I could expect a response within 10 days.

I would be willing to wait a few weeks or even months for that kind of information.

Being able to view other posts on devalpatrick.com is fine for finding people you may want to work with (or whose efforts you may want to subvert). And I actually have no arguments against the governor's election committee making this service avaiable. It's a good vehicle for that.

But once you state that the Governor, as part of his role as Governor, is going to be reading and responding and acting upon posts on that website, you've crossed the line into public record.  Would you like it if at mass.gov there was a disclaimer that any submission was subject to editing, modification, and reuse by the government? I wouldn't! That is why I raised objections.

I like "all the rules" because they provide protection of the public good. I understand them because I took the time to educate myself. Maybe you're so crazy about the website because you don't understand the law.


Previous signature had been getting more attention than my comments. Removed out of jealousy.

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by: dweir @ Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 08:16:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Straw man.... (0.00 / 0)

there's no reason why documents on a web site cannot be considered public record. 

Having worked as a public servant, I think I may remember a few laws relating to the topic. 

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by: lolorb @ Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 09:17:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A good thing but not revolutionary (0.00 / 0)

I know several people who don't know how to use the internet but do know how to get their city councillor, state rep, and state senator on the phone or in person.

Maybe this tool works especially well for the executive branch, because the governor's office is by its statewide reach less accessible (though ideally, its various departments would provide for engagement at the local level).

But I don't see it empowering many people who don't already know how to be heard.

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by: Cannoneo @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:52:35 AM CDT

it empowers them by (0.00 / 0)

helping them find each other so they can work together.  that way they when the do contact their legislators, it can be with a well thought out strategy.  so i don't see this as trying to replace the old 'call yer rep' method.  it complimentary too it and can enhance its effectiveness.

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

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by: Laurel @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:02:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just show us the sausage. (0.00 / 0)

What's the advantage of letting everyone see how it's made?

If the aim is "helping [people] find each other so they can work together" to form a "well thought out strategy," then the free-for-all at devalpatrick.com doesn't seem like the best way to go about it.

I guess I just don't get what's so special about devalpatrick.com. This is not the same as asking what's good about it - I understand that it's nice to see an elected official/political candidate creating the means for conversation, and if the conversation materially affects DP's policies (whether proposed or passed), then that's awesome. I just don't get what's different about it, or why people feel like the site newly empowers them, gives them a voice, etc. How many people do we really think are giving up their shrinking-violet ways and plunging headfirst into the world of wonkery? To judge from all the votes without comment attached, I'd say not too many thus far.

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by: JeremyBThompson @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 14:18:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

if the system is not a good fit for you, then (0.00 / 0)

don;t use it.  but just because you don't find value it doesn't mean others won't.  Clearly, many have already.  WHy the need to tear it down just because you're uninterested?

Do you have a crystall ball?  how do you know that people not leaving comments are not connecting up with the topic coordinator?  How do you know how many shrinking violets have (not) signed on?  And anyway, it's not about the comments, because it's no a blog.  It's about forming active communities. 

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

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by: Laurel @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 14:57:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Laurel - how exactly does it help people to find one another? (0.00 / 0)

By providing HOME ADDRESSES so the like-minded can come there and talk to you?  Are the emails available to the various posters?  There is no PM function that I have seen - although, I'm not signing up until some of these questions get answered.

Again - I see how it communicates with Deval and his campaign staff - how does it help posters communicate with one another?

And I renew my objection to the IMPLICATION that Deval will personally read stuff at his campaign-funded web site complete with donation button, but stuff sent to Mass.Gov and Room 360, maybe not so much.

Yr. Obedient Servant, Peter Porcupine, Republican

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by: Peter Porcupine @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 14:58:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Send email to coordinator" button (0.00 / 0)

Click!

Click HERE and sign up: Campaign For Military Partners.

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by: Laurel @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 15:00:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think... (5.00 / 1)

...that this site would be better served as part of the Mass .gov site.

With the "Donate to Deval" link prominently displayed on the front page, the site appears to be part of his campaign and some folks who aren't on the Dem side may not feel engaged to participate. That may not be the case or the Gov's intent, but appearances can influence how people think.

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by: Mr Weebles @ Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 13:23:53 PM CDT