Fair Punishment for Belichick

I'm coming home (5.00 / 1)

Call me a homer, but I'm comign around for the Patriots on this.

--They wouldn't have been able to use the tape to decipher signals during the game. Too complicated. So they weren't "stealing signs" as much as "scouting signs" for their next game.

--The format is the only thing different from what they did and what others do. I've read several stories detailing how coaches in the booth or on the sidelines are assigned just to watching the other team's signs. They describe them into tape recorders, chart them, etc.

500k is a stiff fine. Means Bill will have to do a couple more speaking engagements in the offseason. Kraft will have to sell a set of cufflinks, maybe one of the cars and give one of the help at the house a month off unpaid to pay his 250k fine.

The Patriots will make the playoffs, which means they will lose their first round pick next year. Take solace; they have the 49ers first round pick. And since they aren't very good, that figures to be better than theirs anyway.

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 07:41:08 AM CDT

What!?!? (0.00 / 0)

Kraft will have to sell a set of cufflinks, maybe one of the cars and give one of the help at the house a month off unpaid to pay his 250k fine

You're kidding right?  Kraft, I'm certain, will keep the cufflinks and hire additional help to go through the the couches for loose change. That is, if he doesn't make Bill do it... gratis, of course.

 

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"Providing health care to the uninsured is a job killer, while not providing health care is merely a people killer....   Bonus: Job Openings!!"

--Stephen Colbert

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by: petr @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 09:55:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

He owes Belichick (0.00 / 0)

Kraft's franchise has won three Super Bowls and is one of the most valuable franchises in the NFL, which is the most popular sports league in America.

He is one of the three most powerful owners in the NFL.

All of that isn't being given back. And he owes 85% of it to Belichick.

People will get over all this much faster than Kraft could get over the loss of Belichick. Bill won't be picking through any couches.

My original point was, though, that this won't hurt the Patriots that much. Bump in the road. The biggest key to everything for them now, as it has always been for them and eveyrone else, is to keep winning.

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:23:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why 85% (0.00 / 0)

As opposed to 84% or 86%? Just curious (because I would have said 100%).

BMG: Reality-based commentary.

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by: Bob Neer @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:25:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

maybe lower than 85%, even, now that you make me think about it (0.00 / 0)

Pioli-Belichick are a tremendous team when it comes to evaluating and picking talent, which is a huge part of the battle.

Plus, offensive and defensive coordinators play a role. You can say they come because Belichick, I suppose.

And while there is a salary cap for players salaries, money is needed to acquire the best facilities and coaching/training personnel to generate wins. So the business end of marketing the team, and maximizing revenue in every way possible (especially if it's outside the leagues revenue sharing) needs to be considered as a factor in their success. Kraft owns the stadium that draws more non-Patriot revenue. And they sell the shite out of the sponsorships, etc.

Let's not forget, Bill got himself out of sticky situation in NY to come here for a reason. If it was 100% him, he probably could've gone to the sunny climate of Phoenix.

 

 

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:49:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Really? (5.50 / 2)

If Belicheck was so great, why did he have Brady riding the bench?

Seriously, though, I'm willing to give the players some of the credit for the Super Bowls.  Move Belicheck to Oakland or Arizona, he doesn't have the same record. 

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Believe it or not, I have even more to say...

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by: sabutai @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 13:47:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Meanwhile (6.00 / 1)

Barry Bonds is still the home run record-holder for MLB.

Baseball needs a new commissioner.

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by: eury13 @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 09:53:55 AM CDT

Was it the worst NFL... (0.00 / 0)

... coaching act of all time?  He got the worst coaching fine of all time after all.

This is BS.  Of course they should be punnished, but this is extreme.  Personally I am much more offended at the league and the PA for what happened during the TO trade between Philli and San Francisco and the Ravens.

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:09:29 AM CDT

Good question (6.00 / 1)

Nullifying the TO trade was atrocious. and it was a favor done for the last guy you want to give a favor to. But that was under the previous commissioner, I believe.

Goddell is a new sherriff and he's looking to kick eveyrone's axx into line.

Worst coaching act of all time? Dunno about rules, which you're obviously asking about. But in terms of just bad coaching it had to be when Ditka put Perry in to score a TD in the Super Bowl, rather than letting Walter Payton score one. Payton was one of the classiest players the league has ever seen. He toiled for very bad teams. And Ditka thoughtlessly passed over a chance to get him a Super Bowl TD so they could run a gimmick play.

But in terms of worst rulebreaking, that's a great question. Keep your eyes on the web, there's bound to be a list coming out comparing them all.

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:28:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm pretty sure... (0.00 / 0)

... that this got overblown in the media because of the lucrative prospect of promoting a popular story in very large pat-hating media markets.  This I think put Goodell under pressure.  Also I wouldn't be surprised if the other 31 bosses that Goodell has exerted some pressure as well.

For me... fair would have been a $100,000-$200,000 fine.  "Make an example of you" fine would be $500,000 (to the team, not the coach).  What resulted here is way over the top.

 

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 12:32:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hear, hear Noternie (0.00 / 0)

Ditka himself has publically regretted that call.  The Bears were the team I grew up with, and "Sweetness" would start on my all-time fantasy team... along with the Troy Brown of 2001.  

There are far worse coaching sins thanBelichick's (for example, Buddy Ryan was rumored to have encouraged his junk yard dogs to "take out" - via injury - key opposing players - horrible if true), but breaking the rules even in the relatively small potatoes way of taping another team's signals isn't what I would wanted or expected from the Patriots.  This scandal has left me feeling less proud of the team's success, less impressed by the coach's skill.

I wish we could have more of our sports heroes untarnished, without drugs, rule-breaking or other personal scandals dimming their on-field achievements.

"Perseverance is a great element of success. If you knock long enough and loud enough at the gate, you are sure to wake up somebody." -Longfellow

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by: Bean in the 'Burbs @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 20:12:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ol' time Broncos (0.00 / 0)

A couple years ago, the Broncos were notorious for chop-blocking at the line.  That's a lot more hazardous to playing careers and fair play than videotaping an inferioir team.

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by: sabutai @ Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 13:09:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

were? (6.00 / 1)

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 at 02:00:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Still are (0.00 / 0)

But back then it was dangerous.  Now, with those lineman, it's like being bitten by a horsefly.

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Believe it or not, I have even more to say...

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by: sabutai @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 at 14:09:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Reasonable Punishment (5.00 / 1)

I agree with Bob-$500k hurts even if you have real money.  So does the loss of at least one draft pick, even if you already have the best team in the league.

I'm glad Sunday's game is a home game.  I expect the Pats to hear some pretty loud chants of "cheaters" at every away game this year.

I'm still bothered by the "everybody does it, so what's the big deal" response I keep seeing on the news reports.

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by: bluefolkie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:11:38 AM CDT

500k isn't that bad (0.00 / 0)

If they have a so-so veteran signed to a $2m/yr contract and the guy isn't working out, they can cut him at game 8 and save $1m. NFL player contracts aren't guranteed, so it would come right off the budget.

I'm not saying they would do that, but it's reasonable that would happen in any given year. There's play in the budget.

And it's a pretty huuuuuuuuge budget their working with. Player expenses alone are listed at $112m. So bumping it up to $113, say, isn't that big a deal. Really. They are the second most valuable franchise in the NFL, according to Forbes recent study (linked above).

The draft pick hurts, but like I said, they have the other first round pick from SF. And you can only count on first round picks to give you so much. Take a look at the first round from three or four years ago and see how much of a loss it would've been to some teams to never have had those guys. Frankly, I'd rather give up a late first round than a second and a third.

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 11:39:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's out of Bill's salary, not the budget (0.00 / 0)

The team has its own fine of $250k, which I agree is probably not a very big deal for them.

Now the team may be able to make up the $500k to Bill in some future contract negotiation, but I don't think the league will allow the team to pay Belichik's fine directly.

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by: HR's Kevin @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 12:00:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

no dif (0.00 / 0)

I'm pretty sure Bill can float the 500k until Kraft--or a few speaking engagements or coaching clinics or endorsement deals--make it back for him.

I'd have to take a home equity loan, but I don't think Bill will.

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I am noternie.

More than a full year's worth of blogginess at  Someday I Will.

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by: noternie @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 12:09:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Also... whats the deal... (0.00 / 0)

... with fining the coach?  Did the guy taking pictures work for the Patriots or BB?  Does BB sign his paychecks?

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 12:35:05 PM CDT

He reports to BB (5.00 / 1)

all coaches report to the head coach.  That makes it BB's responsibility ultimately.

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by: stomv @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 13:24:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thats not really true... (0.00 / 0)

... not all organizations give all coaching and coaching personnel decisions to the head coach.

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 14:10:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

HR decisions (0.00 / 0)

and chain of management are entirely different entities.  All coaches report to the head coach.  Period.  I challenge you to find a single professional organization where an assistant coach doesn't report to the top coach [or manager, in MLBs case] or to an intermediate coach like a coordinator who reports to the top coach.

 

Does ownership lean on the head coach?  Sure.  But all decisions up and down run through the head coach on a professional team.  Always. 

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by: stomv @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 17:10:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We are we talking... (0.00 / 0)

... about the guy with the camera here right?  The guy that isn't a coach but is probably more properly titled 'staff'?  You can't picture an Al Davis instructing any 'staff' outside of the Head Coach's 'permission' or even 'awareness'?

"It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult." - Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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by: Mr Lynne @ Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 20:19:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Even if he as staff doesn't report to BB directly (0.00 / 0)

he still reports to a coordinator who reports to BB.  He isn't some rogue fan who's filming and then dropping off tapes in blank envelopes in the middle of the night.

 

He works for BB, BB's responsible.  That's how it works in prosports -- the coach takes the lumps for team failures, be they on the field or in the press.

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by: stomv @ Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 13:08:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

loss of first round pick = $20 million fine (0.00 / 0)

By even talking about the fine, you're missing forest for trees. 

A 2008 first round pick for Pats might earn $9 million over first 5 years.

Meanwhile, former #1 picks like Wilfork, Dan Graham, Ty Warren earn around $30 million over 5 years for Years 6 to 10, which are slightly more productive than first 5, but not hugely. 

Essentially, a first round pick is a great player that you get to pay (relatively) low amounts of money for 5 years. 

This is a $20 million fine. 

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by: GoldsteinGoneWild @ Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 12:03:00 PM CDT

Except (0.00 / 0)

for all the ones that go bust, due to inability or injury.

 

You make an intersting point, but your numbers come from cherry picking.  Methinks you've overestimated considerably. 

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by: stomv @ Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 13:11:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]